Police earning the hate

tifosi77
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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:46 pm

"Non-violent suspect" isn't the standard under Garner, though. Deadly force can only be used against a fleeing, unarmed felony suspect if it is necessary to prevent their escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of violence to the officer or the community. As he was running away from the police, the threat-to-the-police argument doesn't fly. And trying to evade the police isn't inherently a threat to the community.

But I do agree that police should be held to a much higher standard than the 'reasonable man' bar.

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Police earning the hate

Postby King Colby » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:50 pm

Agreed. This isn't the one. And they already have the one with the floyd thing.

Victim has a lot of culpability, all he had to do was not resist his probable cause arrest and create a gray area situation. A gray area scenario is going to fall to the governments favor before it falls to a citizen, especially a Black one

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Police earning the hate

Postby dodint » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:11 pm

Someone fighting police officers and is desperate to get away is an inherent threat to the community. What's his egress? Steal a car from a waiting customer and drunkenly drive it away at high speed? Break into a nearby home and take a family hostage? I think the probable cause bar here is lower than you think.

Insaw a headline saying he was charged with 11 counts. I haven't seen what they are but that sounds like reaching. I have to look what the concurrent felony on tbe felony murder charge is, too. That struck me as an odd charge.

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 pm

Its not so much the probable cause bar that I have a hard time with, as it is the 'significant threat' piece. The police were 18' away from a drunk man who was calm and cooperative for 40-something minutes, and they had his car, his home address, and the nearby address of his mom (or sister, I forget).

Re the 11 counts, Ofc Rolfe discharged three rounds, striking Mr Brooks twice (in the back). The errant round went into a car that was occupied by two bystanders, so I think those are two aggravated assault charges. Plus, I think there are charges stemming from his post-shooting conduct as well (they didn't render any medical aid for 2 minutes following the shooting, but Rolfe did kick the dying man and another officer stood on him).

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Police earning the hate

Postby King Colby » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:38 pm

Jfc he had a round go into an occupied car?

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:41 pm

Also, all these use-of-force guidelines are for fleeing felony suspects. DUI is a misdemeanor in GA in most cases absent aggravating circumstances like repeat offenses or causing serious injury to another; seems like falling asleep behind the wheel on private property might not trigger that concern. (I've not looked up how Georgia defines 'operating' a vehicle)

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Police earning the hate

Postby dodint » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 pm

I want to be wrong, my dude. Too bad this isn't an episode of The Practice where they waive trial prep and go straight to opening statements. ;)

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:43 pm

Jfc he had a round go into an occupied car?
In light of this, you could argue that Ofc Rolfe posed a greater threat to public safety in that moment than did Mr Brooks.

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:46 pm

Ordinarily, I'd be inclined to agree with dodint: This isn't a favorable fact pattern for a murder conviction, even if I think they'll get him on the at least two of the three counts of agg assault (deadly weapon). (For the shots that struck Mr Brooks)

Times they are a'changin'.

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Police earning the hate

Postby NAN » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:44 pm

I just saw on Twitter a clip of the atl da who charged those cops 2 weeks for tasing the people in the car say that a stun gun is considered a deadly weapon in the state of georgia during that presser.

Wonder if those words will be brought up for this one.

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Police earning the hate

Postby genoscoif » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:22 pm

Also, all these use-of-force guidelines are for fleeing felony suspects. DUI is a misdemeanor in GA in most cases absent aggravating circumstances like repeat offenses or causing serious injury to another; seems like falling asleep behind the wheel on private property might not trigger that concern. (I've not looked up how Georgia defines 'operating' a vehicle)
I could be wrong, but when he punches the police officer during the struggle on the ground, it's basically felony assault, which then elevates his 'suspect' status.

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Police earning the hate

Postby Shyster » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:43 am

Cop charged with backing police car into parked pickup, then falsifying report

https://www.nj.com/monmouth/2020/06/cop ... eport.html

If Officer Foster will lie about something so petty as a bumper-bender, what else might he be willing to falsify?
A 33-year-old Middletown [New Jersey] police officer has been charged with falsifying records after authorities said he lied about how his patrol vehicle became damaged, authorities said Wednesday.

Thomas E. Foster, of Keyport, backed the police cruiser into a parked pickup on Cedar Avenue on July 3, 2019 while on assignment at a road repair project, the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office said. Both vehicles were damaged.

Foster, however, filed a report claiming he “contacted a telephone pole” while backing out of a parking spot, prosecutors said.

Another cop notified the police administration after suspecting “potential wrongdoing and untruthfulness, Middletown police said in their own statement. After the department’s internal affairs investigation showed inconsistencies in Foster’s report, Middletown police notified the prosecutor’s office.

I will absolutely credit the second officer who broke the blue code of silence and reported the false report.

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:24 pm

I just saw on Twitter a clip of the atl da who charged those cops 2 weeks for tasing the people in the car say that a stun gun is considered a deadly weapon in the state of georgia during that presser.

Wonder if those words will be brought up for this one.
The Taser was INOP when Rolfe open fire.

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Police earning the hate

Postby NAN » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:52 pm

I just saw on Twitter a clip of the atl da who charged those cops 2 weeks for tasing the people in the car say that a stun gun is considered a deadly weapon in the state of georgia during that presser.

Wonder if those words will be brought up for this one.
The Taser was INOP when Rolfe open fire.
Is that going to matter though. In the heat of the moment no one is counting how many times a weapon was discharged.

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Police earning the hate

Postby shafnutz05 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:58 pm

I just saw on Twitter a clip of the atl da who charged those cops 2 weeks for tasing the people in the car say that a stun gun is considered a deadly weapon in the state of georgia during that presser.

Wonder if those words will be brought up for this one.
The Taser was INOP when Rolfe open fire.
Is that going to matter though. In the heat of the moment no one is counting how many times a weapon was discharged.
Exactly. It's easy to dissect this situation after the fact but in the heat of the moment and when the adrenaline is pumping, you are being forced to make a split second decision. If he wouldn't have turned and pointed the taser at Rolfe, he would likely still be alive today.

The felony murder charge seems like a political overreach designed to boost the DA's chances of being reelected later this summer. Again, not saying the shooting is "justified" but it is not nearly as egregious as the DA is making it out to be. Hence the situation with the police in Atlanta walking off the job.

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Police earning the hate

Postby PFiDC » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:48 pm

Maybe one shouldn't have a job where you're issued a gun if you can't make the right decision in those situations

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Police earning the hate

Postby NAN » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:09 pm

Maybe one shouldn't have a job where you're issued a gun if you can't make the right decision in those situations
:roll:

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:12 pm

NAN....... do you really think expecting police to make heat-of-the-moment threat assessments is an eyeroll?

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Police earning the hate

Postby NAN » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:17 pm

NAN....... do you really think expecting police to make heat-of-the-moment threat assessments is an eyeroll?
The right decision in a heat of a moment circumstance can be debatable and viewed differently by different individuals. This case is not as clear cut as the George Flloyd incident.

You guys are viewing it after the fact and think there is a clear cut right or wrong answer in many of these cases where their may not be.

Viewing this, I think the action was not justified.

But in some other shootings, where people feel deadly force wasn't deemed necessary that weren't there, we don't know the answers as we are not in that moment in that situation.

You guys are making it seem like a game of checkers is being played or something.

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Police earning the hate

Postby PFiDC » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:19 pm

It's a VERY tough decision to make. That's why I think people who can't make those kinds of right decisions shouldn't have that job. This isn't a knock on the officer or police in general. It's a knock on how they hire and train them. That's part of what needs to change.

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Police earning the hate

Postby NAN » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:26 pm

It's a VERY tough decision to make. That's why I think people who can't make those kinds of right decisions shouldn't have that job. This isn't a knock on the officer or police in general. It's a knock on how they hire and train them. That's part of what needs to change.
Gotcha. :thumb:

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Police earning the hate

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:26 pm

Yeah, I'll double down on what PFiDC said.

I'm not the one acting like it's a game of checkers, but the police - far too often - do. This guy in Atlanta just pulled his blaster out and started sending rounds downrange in a fast food restaurant parking lot, and sent lead into an innocent bystander's car. He posed a far greater threat to public safety in that moment than Rayshard Brooks did.

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Police earning the hate

Postby MR25 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:14 am


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Police earning the hate

Postby Jim » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:46 am

Well, that is a bit stupid. All the stuff that is happening with people getting shot by cops because it's Tuesday... and this woman picks up her phone and starts talking to the camera instead of reacting appropriately. If she got her brains sprayed all over the dash... meh.

I can't quite make out what she is saying but around 0:25 does she say that the car is a rental car of someone else, but its okay because the other person is legit and she knows when to return is? What?

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Police earning the hate

Postby Shyster » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:52 pm

Cops justified in slapping protesters who flip them off, Bay Area police union president says on Facebook; group plans protest

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/06/22 ... s-protest/
The president of the city’s police union is facing criticism and calls to resign, over a Facebook comment saying that slapping a protester who flipped off a cop would be “100 percent justified.”

Cpl. Steve Aiello made the comment on his personal Facebook account, on a meme posted to Antioch’s Crime Prevention Commission. The meme — posted by another user — depicted a woman giving the middle finger to an officer during a protest, and contained the caption, “Maybe it’s the people, not the cops, that need ‘better training.’”

“I firmly believe an open hand slap in the face is 100 percent justified in this incident,” Aiello commented. The comment — and the meme — have since been deleted.

“When a police officer is standing there doing nothing and a person is antagonizing them, why is that OK?” Aiello wrote.
A couple reasons, Cpl. Aiello. First, as is also noted in the article, flipping off a police officer (or anyone, for that matter) is protected speech under the First Amendment. Second, slapping someone is assault, which is illegal. But I can certainly understand why Cpl. Aiello would be under the impression that criminal laws like the ones prohibiting assault would not apply to cops.

Why does it seem like the biggest clowns in blue end up running the unions?

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