Police earning the hate

Postby **skullman80** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:37 pm

https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-in- ... s-12053541

Postby **Shyster** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:17 pm

Postby **Troy Loney** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:42 pm

Absolute **** psychopath, this person is policing, and not institutionalized.

Postby **Shyster** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:35 pm

Police in Detroit shoot a couple dozen dogs, at least, every year. They have been repeatedly sued over it. Reason found back in 2016 that just two members of the Detroit police had, between them, shot more than 100 dogs.

It's hard to track because many police departments don't even bother to keep records, but there are estimates that police in the US shoot around 25 dogs per day, which would be near to (if not over) 10,000 per year.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:52 am

So clearly the number of deranged lunatics that wear badges cannot he overstated. Might be a good piece of info to hold to next time it “looks like the victim he had a gun”.

Postby **tifosi77** » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:41 am

I do not care if this goes on my 'permanent record', but I would be perfectly content spending my days traveling around the country and beating the everloving f**k out of cops who murder dogs. They seem to possess a extra layer of a**hole over and above the ones that abuse their position in being violent towards people. Like, I genuinely wish harm on those people.

Postby **MR25** » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:30 pm

The quoted thread is really something. I can't imagine what it would be like to have cops searching for you with a bogus warrant while you try to work a case against them.

Postby **Shyster** » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:30 pm

If the police will do that to: (a) a practicing criminal-law lawyer who (b) is a public defender (and therefore a public official), imagine how few craps the police would give about doing that to a non-lawyer.

Postby **MR25** » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:38 pm

There is video of this incident from someone across the street. I'll spoiler it (because it shows him getting shot), but if you don't want to watch it:

The man who broke up the fight is behind a car, with 3 cops standing near him. Unsure of what was happening before that, other than what was mentioned in the tweet above. He goes to get back in his car. Officer follows with gun drawn. Man opens the door, officer grabs his shirt with one hand and starts shooting the man in the back with the other. The cop shot 7 times.

In what world is that necessary force?

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:28 am

**** believable

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:49 am

That's insane.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:54 am

Trying to play devil's advocate here. Without knowing what led up to the video starting... They were telling this guy to stop moving and he was making a deliberate walk towards his car.

Putting myself in their shoes, the concern (again, they are responding to a domestic call) is that he has a weapon in the automobile (which is what you have to assume in these situations). So the guy being so hell bent on getting back to his car despite orders to stop doing so has to raise alarm bells...when he goes to get in his car, at that point they don't know if he has a gun in there or not.

I'm not making a case that the shooting is justified, more trying to understand how it happened. They should have tased him well before he got to the car if he was being non compliant.

Postby **CBear3** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:05 am

Reports are they did attempt to taze him at some point. Also, with three officers on scene you don’t let him get to the car, that has children in it (which one of the officers should have scoped out upon arrival) if you believe he’s a threat.

I mean there’s literally no excuse other than the kids in the back were kidnapped to shoot.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:12 am

I mean, you also have people there who likely told the officers he was breaking it up and they still tased him, so even if they go back to the "not following orders" defense, why are they tasing a guy who was trying to be a peacekeeper?

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:17 am

Reports are they did attempt to taze him at some point. Also, with three officers on scene you don’t let him get to the car, that has children in it (which one of the officers should have scoped out upon arrival) if you believe he’s a threat.

I mean there’s literally no excuse other than the kids in the back were kidnapped to shoot.

Agreed. It was handled poorly. Like I said, he should have been tased and on the ground already.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:33 am

But again, why would they be tasing him if he was breaking up the dispute?

It sounds like the cops already had their minds made up as to who was the aggressor in this situation even with witnesses trying to tell them otherwise.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:33 am

I mean, you also have people there who likely told the officers he was breaking it up and they still tased him, so even if they go back to the "not following orders" defense, why are they tasing a guy who was trying to be a peacekeeper?

You are letting your bias against law enforcement in general color your view of this. Is there any video of him playing "peacekeeper" prior to the cops showing up? Would it really surprise you if the side of the story that portrays him as just a simple peacekeeper is not entirely accurate? The police just can't accept the word of a few sympathetic witnesses as face value. They don't know who this guy is, what he was doing prior to them getting there, what he might have in his car, etc.

I mean, the guy was refusing police orders to stay where he was and basically just ignoring them as he walked to his car and went to get in. If you literally did nothing more than break up a fight, and police were telling you to stay where you are, do you think it would be a good idea to ignore them and make a move for your vehicle? That is literally the WORST thing someone can do because there can be any manner of things hidden in a car. At that point, if he is completely ignoring their orders and deliberately going into his car. But you think because one or two of his buddies told the cops that he was just "breaking it up", they should just let him go unimpeded into his vehicle? It was a volatile situation and the cops were trying to keep things static so they could figure out what was going on, and you have this guy refusing orders and making a beeline for his car.

Again, I agree with CBear that he should have been tased before it got to this point. But I feel like you are grossly oversimplifying this situation through your own views on the police in general, which are extremely negative. You are buying the sensational description of this shooting as gospel--"Cops shoot peacekeeping black man in the back!!!" If the police respond to a domestic call, it is extremely common for them to tell EVERYONE to not move so they can assess the situation, find out what is going on, and go from there. The cops effed up big-time by not putting the guy down with non-lethal means before it got this far, but this is not the next George Floyd.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:37 am

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:37 am

But again, why would they be tasing him if he was breaking up the dispute?

It sounds like the cops already had their minds made up as to who was the aggressor in this situation even with witnesses trying to tell them otherwise.

Dude, I know you hate the police but come on.

THEY DO NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS BREAKING UP THE DISPUTE. FRIENDLY WITNESSES ARE KNOWN TO LIE.

If you were just an innocent bystander that broke up a fight...let's put yourself in those shoes. The police are called for a domestic call, they come out. Again, YOU (the innocent bystander)..what would you do? Would you just stand there and talk to the cops about what happened? Or would you immediately start ignoring them, ignore their follow up orders to not move, and make a bee line for your car? That is literally the stupidest thing someone can do...you are asking for death by cop in that scenario because there have been way too many instances of people grabbing guns out of their car and shooting. It happens all the time.

It amazes me that you are so readily accepting the BLM version of this incident at face value. I have been on record countless times in this thread criticizing police shootings, brutality, etc., so I am hardly a thin blue line guy. But the only things the cops did wrong in this situation was tase him before he was close to getting in his car.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:39 am

oof.

Please, tell me what is so outrageous about that post. You cannot accuse me of being an unconditional police supporter because I've shown time and time again that I'm not. What part of my analysis is deserving of an "oof"?

Postby **obhave** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:43 am

If you were just an innocent bystander that broke up a fight...let's put yourself in those shoes. The police are called for a domestic call, they come out. Again, YOU (the innocent bystander)..what would you do? Would you just stand there and talk to the cops about what happened? Or would you immediately start ignoring them, ignore their follow up orders to not move, and make a bee line for your car? That is literally the stupidest thing someone can do...you are asking for death by cop in that scenario because there have been way too many instances of people grabbing guns out of their car and shooting. It happens all the time.

It amazes me that you are so readily accepting the BLM version of this incident at face value. I have been on record countless times in this thread criticizing police shootings, brutality, etc., so I am hardly a thin blue line guy. But the only things the cops did wrong in this situation was tase him before he was close to getting in his car.

I think this is what will always get me this any arguments. There are very few cases where it should be acceptable to say this phrase. There should not even be a statement like this. Trial and death sentence by cops is unacceptable. Did they have any reports he had a gun? Was there any evidence when he moved to his car?

Also... Does this happen all the time? What is the instance number of people being outside a car with cops on them, running back to a car, grabbing a gun?

Postby **MR25** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:43 am

Forgive me for not immediately taking the side of cops, who have a penchant for needlessly escalating situations involving black people, in a situation where an officer held a dude and shot him in the back 7 times.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:44 am

oof.
Please, tell me what is so outrageous about that post. You cannot accuse me of being an unconditional police supporter because I've shown time and time again that I'm not. What part of my analysis is deserving of an "oof"?

I don't know what context could possibly exist that would prompt a defense for that officer's decision.

Postby **bhflyhigh** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:46 am

That is literally the stupidest thing someone can do...you are asking for death by cop in that scenario because there have been way too many instances of people grabbing guns out of their car and shooting. It happens all the time.

It seems like any scenario where you'd don't do 100% what the cops want is a death by cop scenario. Why do they get to be judge, jury, and executioner? They are afraid for their safety, but they don't even wait until their safety is threatened. It's a dangerous job and they should be paid way more than they make, but the bar to kill anyone should be much much higher imo. No way they needed to shoot this man.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:50 am

Also... Does this happen all the time? What is the instance number of people being outside a car with cops on them, running back to a car, grabbing a gun?

People (and criminals) keep guns in their car all of the time. Which is what makes it alarming when someone refuses to follow basic commands to just stay where he is, and instead seems dead set on getting back to his vehicle and reaching for the floorboards (which he was doing in the video provided) despite all orders to the contrary.

Look...I 100% agree that the officers should be punished for letting it get to that point. If they had a non-compliant subject like that, he should have been physically taken down (which they were in range to do) or tased before it ever got to that point. It was shtty officer training and they should be punished. Let's make it clear that I agree on that count.

I was more referencing MR's immediate, unquestioning belief in the way this story is being portrayed. This man
"was just a peacekeeping father that was trying to break up a fight and got shot in the back because of it". There have been enough of these stories where the furor has fizzled out after more facts/footage came out that believing that version of the story unblinkingly is just as absurd as believing whatever crap version the cops are selling.

With every single incident being weaponized right now, a little skepticism should always be normal.