JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Why isn't this called "JRR Tolkien's One Thread To Rule Them All"
Many reasons:

1) This thread is not about controlling other threads. We can all coexist.

2) I was asked to create this thread, and, when you do that you get 'super duper mega', not meta references to the subject matter.

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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm

I've never done the audio book route. I've thought about it many times at work, but feel like I need to focus for something like Tolkien audio?
I would not recommend audio as your point of entry if you've never read the books. But if you have a decent level of familiarity (say 2-3 reads) with the material, audio books are imo the best way to reconnect. If for no other reason than you can hear the correct way to say some of the words that are in the invented languages.

Actually, now that I think about it it was listening to LOTR that first prompted me to get an Elvish dictionary.

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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 pm

If you've already read them, I strongly recommend the audio books read by Rob Inglis.
I would also recommend The Silmarillion as read by Martin Shaw. I have it on CDs (!) and have listened to it perhaps a dozen times on road trips over the years.

One of the things that gets me about Tolkien and a lot of fantasy is that the civilizations don't really advance technologically. I mean the Númenóreans were the smartest, most advance civilization of Men in the world for nearly 3500 years, yet they never developed gunpowder? Or steam engines? Or the internal combustion engine? Or flight? Or computers? Other fantasy authors go the same route (probably because of Tolkien's influence) and it bugs me.

Elves were of course around for much longer, but they deliberately eschewed technology, preferring to live in accord with nature, so I'll give them a pass. But Men?

I presume it's because Tolkien himself hated modern technology, having seen firsthand the dark, satanic mills of industrialization and the horrors of the (inevitable) First World War.
Yes, he was crazy against technology. That's why the machines of war were all possessed by the bad guys.

The whole point of the Middle-earth tales was to give Britain its own legendarium. All of their best legends were co-opted from the French following the Norman conquest (King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc.), so he set out to make a uniquely British mythology. So all those inventions you list are the things that exist in the modern (real) world of Great Britain in what would be the 5th or 6th age or something like that.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:12 pm

If you've already read them, I strongly recommend the audio books read by Rob Inglis.
I would also recommend The Silmarillion as read by Martin Shaw. I have it on CDs (!) and have listened to it perhaps a dozen times on road trips over the years.

One of the things that gets me about Tolkien and a lot of fantasy is that the civilizations don't really advance technologically. I mean the Númenóreans were the smartest, most advance civilization of Men in the world for nearly 3500 years, yet they never developed gunpowder? Or steam engines? Or the internal combustion engine? Or flight? Or computers? Other fantasy authors go the same route (probably because of Tolkien's influence) and it bugs me.

Elves were of course around for much longer, but they deliberately eschewed technology, preferring to live in accord with nature, so I'll give them a pass. But Men?

I presume it's because Tolkien himself hated modern technology, having seen firsthand the dark, satanic mills of industrialization and the horrors of the (inevitable) First World War.
This is a good post. As I am reading through The Hobbit for the first time, I think I had forgotten just how much I loved Tolkien's prose. He was so far ahead of his time with the humor elements too. Kind of wish I could experience the trilogy for the first time too but I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of the detail in the books.

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:13 pm

I've never done the audio book route. I've thought about it many times at work, but feel like I need to focus for something like Tolkien audio?
I only listen to them on long road trips. Focus-friendly.
My problem with audiobooks and podcasts is that I get aggravated behind the wheel with other drivers sometimes, and I find that I have to rewind two minutes because I lose my focus.

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby eddysnake » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:16 pm

I've never done the audio book route. I've thought about it many times at work, but feel like I need to focus for something like Tolkien audio?
I only listen to them on long road trips. Focus-friendly.
My problem with audiobooks and podcasts is that I get aggravated behind the wheel with other drivers sometimes, and I find that I have to rewind two minutes because I lose my focus.
this would be me.

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Postby eddysnake » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:18 pm

I've read LOTR and Hobbit numerous times (Children of Hurin once). What should be the next Tolkien book to read? I honestly feel like I'm learning more about his creation by just clicking through the tolkien gateway site.

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby redwill » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:30 pm

The whole point of the Middle-earth tales was to give Britain its own legendarium. All of their best legends were co-opted from the French following the Norman conquest (King Arthur, Robin Hood, etc.), so he set out to make a uniquely British mythology. So all those inventions you list are the things that exist in the modern (real) world of Great Britain in what would be the 5th or 6th age or something like that.
Yeah, I get that. But I can't help imagining these fellows, who were brilliant, valiant, and traveled all over Middle-Earth with access to endless resources, sitting around doing nothing progressive or intellectual for 3000+ years.

Actually, it's kind of amusing: "So, what are we gonna do this millenium?"

"Oh, I guess the same thing we've been doing for the past two. Y'know ..."

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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:40 pm

Does it also bother you that in actual human history there was like a quarter million years between the harnessing of fire and the invention of agriculture? And then 4,000 years to the wheel? And another 4,000 years until gunpowder? ;)

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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

I've read LOTR and Hobbit numerous times (Children of Hurin once). What should be the next Tolkien book to read? I honestly feel like I'm learning more about his creation by just clicking through the tolkien gateway site.
This is the point in my own reading where I crack The Silmarillion. But it's super dense; it no joke is the Middle-earth bible, and it reads very much like Genesis. There are times it feels like it's 75% names that are not ever repeated. But the Gateway is a fantastic resource, too.

If you really want to go deep, look into some of the materials that inspired Tolkien. Find a good translation of The Kalevala (sort of Finnish Beowulf), for example. Tolkien taught himself the Finnish language to read the original, and used that as the basis for the Elvish language Quenya.

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Postby eddysnake » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:48 pm

I've read LOTR and Hobbit numerous times (Children of Hurin once). What should be the next Tolkien book to read? I honestly feel like I'm learning more about his creation by just clicking through the tolkien gateway site.
This is the point in my own reading where I crack The Silmarillion. But it's super dense; it no joke is the Middle-earth bible, and it reads very much like Genesis. There are times it feels like it's 75% names that are not ever repeated. But the Gateway is a fantastic resource, too.

If you really want to go deep, look into some of the materials that inspired Tolkien. Find a good translation of The Kalevala (sort of Finnish Beowulf), for example. Tolkien taught himself the Finnish language to read the original, and used that as the basis for the Elvish language Quenya.
you had me at Finnish Beowulf

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Postby redwill » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:51 pm

Does it also bother you that in actual human history there was like a quarter million years between the harnessing of fire and the invention of agriculture? And then 4,000 years to the wheel? And another 4,000 years until gunpowder? ;)
At the start of that 3000 years, they had written language, literature, culture, tradition, and a level of technology that was on the cusp of what in our time was the Renaissance. No reason for them not to progress.

BTW, I should emphasize that I love Tolkien and similar fantasy to distraction. It's just a peccadillo which sticks with me.

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:57 pm

I had that same thought about Westeros. Like why haven't things progressed at all, in hundreds of years?

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Postby redwill » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:21 pm

Now that I think about it: what if the Númenóreans had indeed progressed technologically to the point where they had, say, thermonuclear weapons?

The assault on Valinor may have gone a bit differently. Heh.

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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:23 pm

Also, Middle-earth is meant to exist in the real pre-historic world of Actual Earth. Where things like gunpowder and cell phones and whatnot have known provenances.

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Postby redwill » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Also, don't forget that the Dúnedain had an additional 3000 years during the Third Age. Guess how they progressed.

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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:18 pm

TORN just posted a fun observation.

The Tolkien biopic is being made by Fox Searchlight. Disney just acquired Fox. So does that mean Lúthien Tinúviel is now a Disney princess?

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Postby redwill » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:45 pm

Ha. I finally found time to dig this out of a backup drive.

Five or six years ago, I did a Warz game on LGP based on The Silmarillion. It was called The Wars of Beleriand. RJ has hidden the forum so I can't link to the game (what a shame, but I understand).

Anyway, this was the setup and the players. I wanted twenty players and got twenty-one, so CBear3 was the odd man out. In hindsight, I should have made him Eöl. But I was rushed.

Of the posters in this thread, only @shafnutz05 played in the game and I doubt any of the other posters in this thread even look at Warz games. But it was fun. I'm just posting it here for funsies and a bit o' nostalgia.

I apologize for the bright yellow color of the Houses of Men. It worked well at LGP. The colors caused a lot of :scared: .

There were a lot of rules and interactions, some of which I've forgotten.
You are the House of Fingolfin. Your goal is the defeat of The Enemy. However, although that is your sole goal, it may not be enough to win. There are other forces at work.

All of you may freely communicate via PM.


Kaizer - Fingolfin, son of Finwë
- You are the House's limited Killer. You may first kill on Night 3, then only when the mod tells you. You may not save kills. If you do not kill, the kill is lost.

Zarovich - Fingon, son of Fingolfin
- You are the House's Guardian. You may protect anyone on ODD Nights, starting with Night 1.

Willie Kool - Turgon, son of Fingolfin, Lord of Gondolin
- You have two special powers: You are hidden from investigations (seer attempts) AND you cannot be killed at night.

PensFanInDC - Finrod Felagund of the House of Finarfin, Lord of Nargothrond
- You are the House's Seer. You may investigate another player on EVEN Nights, starting with Night 2. You may also have another task, if conditions are met.

-------------------------------



You are The Enemy. Your goal is the total destruction of the Eldar (i.e., everyone else) in Beleriand.

All of you may freely communicate via PM.


mac5155 - Morgoth, The Black Enemy of the World
- You cannot be killed at night. Also, if you are investigated (seered), you will CAPTURE the investigator. Finally, you possess one of the three SILMARILS. The importance of this may eventually come to light.

Troy Loney - Sauron, Chief Lieutenant of Morgoth
- You are the SEER of The Enemy. You may investigate anyone every ODD Night, starting with Night 1. Also, you are hidden from other investigations (seers).

ulf - Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs
- You are the Guardian of The Enemy. You may protect anyone on ODD Nights, starting with Night 1.

canaan - Glaurung, Father of Dragons
- You are the limited Killer of The Enemy. You may first kill on Night 2, then only when the mod tells you. HOWEVER: on any Night, but only ONCE, you may ASSASSINATE a player. Only ONCE. That player will die regardless of any protection. If you do so, you will forfeit your next kill opportunity. Be advised, however, that it is your Doom that if you attempt to kill one particular player, unknown to you, then you will die also. This does not apply to an ASSASSINATION, only a kill. You may save your ASSASSINATION, but you may not save kills. If you do not kill, the kill is lost.


-------------------------------


You are Men of the Houses of the Edain. Your goal is the defeat of The Enemy. However, although that is your sole goal, it may not be enough to win. There are other forces at work.

All of you may freely communicate via PM.


slappybrown - Barahir of the House of Bëor
- You are the leader of the the Elf-Friends. You have a special power which will be revealed to you if the conditions are right.

the wicked child - Beren One-Handed, son of Barahir.
- You are the SEER of the Houses of the Edain. You may investigate anyone on EVEN Nights, starting with Night 2. You also have a secret power which may reveal itself if the conditions are right. Finally, you possess one of the three SILMARILS. The importance of this may eventually come to light.

BigMcK - Hurin of the House of Hador
- You are the mightiest warrior of all the races of Men. You are the Guardian of the Houses of the Edain. You may protect anyone on EVEN Nights, starting with Night 2.

dodint - Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Master of Doom
- You are the limited Killer of the Houses of the Edain. As Men came late to Beleriand, you may first kill on Night 5, then only when the mod tells you. You may not save kills. If you do not kill, the kill is lost. You also have a special power which may reveal itself if the conditions are right.



---------------------------------


You are the House of Fëanor, The Dispossessed. Your goal is two-fold: You must defeat The Enemy AND recover the three Silmarils.

The holders of the three Silmarils are hidden, but will be revealed to you if you successfully investigate (seer) the holder. You gain possession of a Silmaril if any one of you participate in a successful kill (day or night) of the holder, even if you did not know that person held a Silmaril.

Achieving success in ONE of your two goals accomplishes nothing. You must defeat The Enemy AND recover the Silmarils.

All of you may freely communicate via PM.


MRandall25 - Maedhros, son of Fëanor
- You have two special powers: If you are killed (day or night), you will be automatically protected ONCE. Also, given certain conditions which are hidden to you at this time, you may be able to form the Union of Maedhros with a few other Elves.

Sam's Drunk Dog - Maglor, son of Fëanor
- You are the House's Guardian. You may protect anyone on EVEN Nights, starting with Night 2.

Crankshaft - Celegorm the Hunter, son of Fëanor
- You are the House's Seer. You may investigate any player on ODD nights, starting with Night 1.

shafnutz05 - Curufin, son of Fëanor
- You are the House's limited Killer. You may first kill on Night 1, then only when the mod tells you. You may not save kills. If you do not kill, the kill is lost.


-----------------------------------


You are the Sindarin Elves of the Hidden Realm of Doriath. Your goal is the defeat of The Enemy. However, although that is your sole goal, it may not be enough to win. There are other forces at work.

All of you may freely communicate via PM.


obhave - Elu Thingol, King of Doriath
- You are the Seer of Doriath. You may investigate anyone every ODD Night, starting with Night 1. You also have a special power which may reveal itself if the conditions are right.

MWB - Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Thingol
- You are the Guardian of the House of Thingol. You may protect anyone on ODD Nights, starting with Night 1. You also have a secret power which may reveal itself if the conditions are right. Finally, you possess one of the three SILMARILS. The importance of this may eventually come to light.

dagny - Dior Eluchíl, Thingol's Heir
- If any SILMARILS are lost, they come to you. This may be a blessing or a curse.

relantel - Beleg Strongbow
- You are the limited Killer of Doriath. You may first kill on Night 4, then only when the mod tells you. You may not save kills. If you do not kill, the kill is lost.


------------------------------------

Poor CBear3 is the odd man out. He's nothing. No name, no role.

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JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby Willie Kool » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:57 pm

That was a great game...

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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:58 pm

Of the posters in this thread, only @shafnutz05 played in the game and I doubt any of the other posters in this thread even look at Warz games.
twc posted earlier in this thread.

lynch redwill

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Postby redwill » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:11 pm

Of the posters in this thread, only @shafnutz05 played in the game and I doubt any of the other posters in this thread even look at Warz games.
twc posted earlier in this thread.

lynch redwill
Ah, so he did. My mistake. Thanks, Turgon.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:15 pm

That was a great game. Very inventive

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Postby redwill » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:27 pm

If I thought I could have gotten 28 players I would have separated out the House of Finarfin and added maybe the traitorous swarthy Eastern Men (thanks for the racism, JRR).

But, wow, remember when we could get 21 for a game?

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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:57 pm

@redwill, I bought the book because of how awesome the game was.

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Postby Kane » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:59 pm

You jagoffs would wait until I'm gone to start a Tolkien thread.

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