JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

Postby **tifosi77** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:46 pm

The diversions away from the source material have been so significant that it's honestly like 85% original content. "Lord Of The Rings" is almost just a brand license at this point. Take the show on it's own merits, or lack thereof, and ignore schmoes like me and edward kvetching about 'canon' nonsense.

In a vacuum the first season was shockingly uneven imo. But the good stuff - Durin and Elrond, especially - was more often than not actually great. Notwithstanding the above, where the show has been consistently weakest has been in the diversions away from John Ronald. The greater the diversion, the lesser the quality.

As with any adaptation, I'm not precious about deviating from the source if it makes narrative sense to fit the medium. However, most of the changes they've made sort of don't really make sense to me, so I'm just basically ignoring Tolkien as I watch, and only digging into it after the fact to nerd flex.

Postby **meow** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:04 pm

My plan was to wait til all the episodes are out and the binge but this thread got me second guessing. Is it even worth it

I would not recommend this to anyone. Every aspect of it is poorly done. Atrocious acting. Horribly directed. Boring writing. Just an absolute waste of what could have been something phenomenal

Postby **tifosi77** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:06 pm

Don't listen to meow, he often isn't even sure what content he's slagging.

Postby **meow** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:10 pm

I wish I could get those 10 hours back. They would be better spent doing literally anything else

Postby **eddy** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:21 pm

Well that was an interesting way to get where we are now.

Postby **DigitalGypsy66** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:01 am

Underwhelming finale. I hope things...pick up? develop? for season 2. Strangely enough, my kids (both teenagers) really enjoyed it and really pushed us each week to watch it. I liked the spectacle, most of the casting, and the production quality. But it seemed underwhelming as it went on. Early on, I thought it would be neck and neck with House of Dragons as far as "water cooler" talk, but not at all. HoD maintained that interest (despite multiple recastings!) but RoP didn't. That's a shame.

Rough month for Amazon with the **** NFL Thursday games and poor reception to Rings of Power.

Postby **eddy** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:17 am

.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:22 am

Underwhelming finale. I hope things...pick up? develop? for season 2. Strangely enough, my kids (both teenagers) really enjoyed it and really pushed us each week to watch it. I liked the spectacle, most of the casting, and the production quality. But it seemed underwhelming as it went on. Early on, I thought it would be neck and neck with House of Dragons as far as "water cooler" talk, but not at all. HoD maintained that interest (despite multiple recastings!) but RoP didn't. That's a shame.

Rough month for Amazon with the **** NFL Thursday games and poor reception to Rings of Power.

It’s because the one show was just way better than the other.

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:33 am

Postby **DigitalGypsy66** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:37 am

Underwhelming finale. I hope things...pick up? develop? for season 2. Strangely enough, my kids (both teenagers) really enjoyed it and really pushed us each week to watch it. I liked the spectacle, most of the casting, and the production quality. But it seemed underwhelming as it went on. Early on, I thought it would be neck and neck with House of Dragons as far as "water cooler" talk, but not at all. HoD maintained that interest (despite multiple recastings!) but RoP didn't. That's a shame.

Rough month for Amazon with the **** NFL Thursday games and poor reception to Rings of Power.
It’s because the one show was just way better than the other.

Yes. But it didn't have to be this way.

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:30 am

Postby **tifosi77** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:32 am

"YOU. SHALL NOT. CROSS THIS BRIDGE!!!!!" -- meow remembering great moments from LOTR
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Re salvaging something worthwhile

We discussed ITT that it would be cool if we explored the corruption and fall of a good character to the influence of the Dark Lord to ultimately become the Lord of the Nazgûl. We already know some of Sauron's backstory, that he had multiple aliases through the SA and early TA, that he was a deceiver, etc, so I don't really get wanting to dramatize that story so much. But JRRT was pretty much completely silent as to who The Nine were, I don't even think he states the most basic bits of where their realms were before they were claimed by the Ring. They can still do that with Theo, and that would make for a compelling arc. That's why I thought it was important for Bronwyn to not survive (and also because there are a grand total of three Elf-Human unions known in the history of Middle-earth. 'Arondir <3 Guns Out' wasn't one of them, and I'm not sure inventing this pairing really helps this story, unless it provides a backdrop for the melancholy of immortality and the foundation for the corruption of a good young man through the passing of his mother. ('Death' is the main theme of LOTR, after all) So hopefully there's some there there.

Isildur is still lost and unaccounted for where the Shadows lie. So what's up with that.

Disa - one of my favorite newly invented characters - proved to be something more than we bargained for initially; does her ambition wake Durin's Bane? Is "Durin's Bane" even still the Balrog, or will is be a euphemism for a social climbing wife now?

I want to see more of Númenor, particularly the west. To that bit about the melancholy of immortality, we're starting to see the foundations of that lament in Ar-Pharazôn with the passing of the king. Pharazôn ended up being a pretty decent character in all this, and we know that his ultimate ambition literally sinks the island kingdom, so I think they did a good job setting this up.

Adar ended up being a lot better and more interesting than I gave it credit for ahead of his reveal. I saw one theory that somehow Adar was Sauron all along, and that during the eruption of Orodruin he killed Halbrand and assumed his identity. (Sauron was a shapeshifter of sorts) It's a neat idea, but ultimately not one I'd like to see play out. Halbrand was the Big Bad all along, you fooled us, showrunners.

Like I said, I thought the good was very very good, even great. But we had to wade through 5 1/2 hours of meh or outright wtf to get to it.

Postby **nocera** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:41 am

Obviously I haven't watched the show, but I reject the idea that something can be very good, even great if you have to get through 5 1/2 hours of bad to get to it.

Postby **tifosi77** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:42 am

I believe you.

Postby **tifosi77** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:43 am

Think of it this way: The podrace sequence and Duel of the Fates do not make Episode I a great movie. But those sequences are themselves pretty excellent. That's sort of what I'm talking about.

Postby **nocera** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:45 am

Think of it this way: The podrace sequence and Duel of the Fates do not make Episode I a great movie. But those sequences are themselves pretty excellent. That's sort of what I'm talking about.

My bad, I misread. I thought you were saying you thought the season was great. The old "no, really, it's a great show, you just have to get through the first 4 or 5 seasons."

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:46 am

The show has it's moments, yes.

But the dialogue, dear god, the dialogue ...

Postby **tifosi77** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:26 pm

Some of this makes sense and is fair and accurate. But some of it is pretty weirdly off-base imo.

People don’t seem to have been told what sort of show they are acting in. It’s bizarre.
-----
The whole thing was lit as if it was an episode of Hollyoaks. Given the sheer amount of money thrown at the show, some of the visual effects were incredibly inept. Tonally, too, the drama didn’t know if it was meant to be for beginner-, intermediate- or expert-level Tolkien fans. As such, it felt like it was made for nobody.

These two bits are a pretty accurate summary of what I think were its greatest failings.

Where I disagree most sharply with that critique is the characterization of the music. That was one consistently - and I would said unassailably - great part of the show, along with the production design/wardrobe/etc. They maybe overused the music in places, but that's not the composer's fault.

Postby **tifosi77** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:22 pm

I must've forgotten ever learning this, but apparently Nazanin Boniadi ("Guns Out") was once an ardent Scientologist. She was (unknowingly) auditioned by the church to be Tom Cruise's girlfriend and next wife back in the pre-Katie Holmes days. So that's fun.

Postby **Gaucho** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:39 pm

I thought it was fairly obvious from the start who the Stranger is, but maybe that's only because I'm not an expert-level Tolkien nerd.

Postby **Gaucho** » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:42 pm

Fiona Apple was a nice surprise tho.

Postby **tifosi77** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:17 pm

Posting here cos it was amusing.

Got a phishing email at work yesterday. Mocked up to look like a DocuSign envelope. It was from "Mairon Gorthaur" and the document name was "akallabeth (pharazon)_3318". I appreciated that. It was the most thoroughly accurate Tolkien that's come my way in a few years now.

Postby **eddy** » Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:55 am

Start at 11 minutes for the transformation of smeagol and Start at 23 minute for some zep. I can't believe they connected all three nights with each of the books and based songs on how the story unfolded. Absolutely killer

Postby **eddy** » Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:10 am

Postby **nocera** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:31 pm

I had no idea this was a thing and I probably won’t watch it but it’s cool that she’s coming back: