JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

[tifosi77]

I said what I said.

[eddy]

I've seen some people say halbrand on the boat could be Sauron, but that doesn't make any sense to me as why he wouldn't kill Galadriel then. Could he be Theo's (kid with the sword) dad? If that's the case, could that be Saurons sword which I guess could connect Halbrand as Sauron?

I think MM has to be gandalf or saruman (unless we get a 2nd meteor for the alatar/pallandro connection).

Is the tower that Celebrimbor wants built for creation of the rings?

[eddy]

a good point was made that MM could be Sauron as the elves left and he made his way there at the same time not knowing Galadriel jumped ship and came back

[tifosi77]

I've seen some people say halbrand on the boat could be Sauron, but that doesn't make any sense to me as why he wouldn't kill Galadriel then. Could he be Theo's (kid with the sword) dad? If that's the case, could that be Saurons sword which I guess could connect Halbrand as Sauron?

I think MM has to be gandalf or saruman (unless we get a 2nd meteor for the alatar/pallandro connection).

Is the tower that Celebrimbor wants built for creation of the rings?

Sauron is in Middle-earth hiding from the Valar. It would be weird if does this by running around on random boats murdering the first Elf he meets during our story; he's the Lord of Gifts at this stage, he's there to ingratiate himself to the Elves not slay them (yet). So I don't buy the Sauron/Halbrand thing, at least not yet. I do think the Halbrand/Theo connection is a likely possibility. Halbrand and Guns Out are two of the most attractive characters in the show so far, so it would make Hollywood Sense that they've hooked up. And while they live in Future Mordor it's clear Theo and Guns aren't average schmoes. ("The first orc I ever saw I decapitated." is a very Chuck Yeager way to go about life.) What I think is pretty interesting about this connection is it sort of sets up Halbrand to potentially be one of the recipients of the 9 rings gifted to the Kings of Men, and maybe even eventually become the Witch King. Which would be bananas to get his origin story as a fall from grace, rather than a straight power grab.

And yes, at least my take is Celebrimbor's tower will be the forge in which the Rings of Power are made. But remember, it takes something like 900 years for all 16 rings gifted to the mortal races to be completed; I forget how long it took to make the rings for the Elves, but I recall they had jewels set in them. And it took another like 200 years for Sauron to complete the One Ring. Either way, if we're meeting a Man at this stage of our story, and that Man is meant to become the Witch King who survives to the Third Age and the War of the Ring, it means they are taking some serious liberties with the timelines of the known legend, unless they are going to Plot Armor it away by saying in receiving one the Rings of Power Halbrand was granted far more than a natural lifespan before the wraithing process commenced. But that would be something I'd consider an acceptable adaptation/change from known book canon to tell a more interesting narrative film story.

[tifosi77]

Or................ it could be that Halbrand just isn't that person and we're overthinking it by half.

[eddy]

I've seen some people say halbrand on the boat could be Sauron, but that doesn't make any sense to me as why he wouldn't kill Galadriel then. Could he be Theo's (kid with the sword) dad? If that's the case, could that be Saurons sword which I guess could connect Halbrand as Sauron?

I think MM has to be gandalf or saruman (unless we get a 2nd meteor for the alatar/pallandro connection).

Is the tower that Celebrimbor wants built for creation of the rings?

Sauron is in Middle-earth hiding from the Valar. It would be weird if does this by running around on random boats murdering the first Elf he meets during our story; he's the Lord of Gifts at this stage, he's there to ingratiate himself to the Elves not slay them (yet). So I don't buy the Sauron/Halbrand thing, at least not yet. I do think the Halbrand/Theo connection is a likely possibility. Halbrand and Guns Out are two of the most attractive characters in the show so far, so it would make Hollywood Sense that they've hooked up. And while they live in Future Mordor it's clear Theo and Guns aren't average schmoes. ("The first orc I ever saw I decapitated." is a very Chuck Yeager way to go about life.) What I think is pretty interesting about this connection is it sort of sets up Halbrand to potentially be one of the recipients of the 9 rings gifted to the Kings of Men, and maybe even eventually become the Witch King. Which would be bananas to get his origin story as a fall from grace, rather than a straight power grab.

And yes, at least my take is Celebrimbor's tower will be the forge in which the Rings of Power are made. But remember, it takes something like 900 years for all 16 rings gifted to the mortal races to be completed; I forget how long it took to make the rings for the Elves, but I recall they had jewels set in them. And it took another like 200 years for Sauron to complete the One Ring. Either way, if we're meeting a Man at this stage of our story, and that Man is meant to become the Witch King who survives to the Third Age and the War of the Ring, it means they are taking some serious liberties with the timelines of the known legend, unless they are going to Plot Armor it away by saying in receiving one the Rings of Power Halbrand was granted far more than a natural lifespan before the wraithing process commenced. But that would be something I'd consider an acceptable adaptation/change from known book canon to tell a more interesting narrative film story.

Sauron is supposed to be hiding and coming down via meteor is the thing I can't get past, but it appears they are taking some liberties with the story, so I guess it's not too far fetched to think that. Also, if I remember correctly, Halbrand does mention a son he is no longer in contact with, right?

Witch King theory is definitely interesting, I think I like that path better.

[Dickie Dunn]

How do you nerds know this ****.

[tifosi77]

A good friend of mine did all the creative for the home video releases of the movies back in the day, got to go to New Zealand several times and whatnot. I was part of an informal crew of High Nerds she assembled to advise what fans would be into as special features, art, etc. I was already a fan and had read the books, but that (ahem, UNPAID) project spanned about four or five years and took me down a rabbit hole from which I have never really emerged.

[Kane]

I've read the Silmarillion twice, as well as Unfinished Tales and the LoTR appendices. Only thing I haven't grabbed yet is History of Middle-Earth.

[eddy]

I've read Hobbit (usually once a year), LOTR, silmarillion and children of hurin. Other than that, I mostly get caught up in rabbit holes on the internet and only realize what's happening when I come too about 3 days later.

[nocera]

I’ve read nothing and I won’t be bullied.

[eddy]

My kids are at the age where they retain things much better than me and they are obsessed with everything Tolkien so I have to stay fresh. I used some of tifs wonderful points from comments in here to give them a little notice that they need to step up their theory game

[Kane]

If they start getting cocky, bust out the Dagor Dagorath and knock 'em down a few pegs.

[DigitalGypsy66]

My kids are at the age where they retain things much better than me

This is crazy how this works. My parents used to say stuff like that about me and my sibs, but I didn't believe them. My kids remember movies, comic books, song lyrics so easily it's scary.

[eddy]

with Celebrimbor already planning the forge for the rings, can we assume that Sauron is already here doing his work as Annatar?

Also, I think at this point, we are good with mithril being in the chest that Durin opens? That can't be the arkenstone, right?Digging too deep and greedily. This isn't going to go well for khazad dum. Balrog?

[Kane]

Definitely shouldn't be the Arkenstone - that was in the Lonely Mountain. I bet mithril.

[blackjack68]

I thought MM could be Radagast because he spoke to the fireflies and they were all dying out. Similar to the dying animals in Two Towers

My initial thought on MM

[eddy]

So they are still mining during the 2nd age, right? Nothing happens with a Balrog and Durin in 2nd age? That's Durin VI, I think. I'm a little confused because of Durin III and Durin IV both around.

[tifosi77]

They do not awaken Durin's Bane until the Third Age. I honestly do not recall if Tolkien ever actually set forth exactly when the Dwarves discovered their fancypants silver, but I'm on Team Mithril in the Macellus Wallace glow-box.

Celebrimbor mentions that he has to have his forge built by spring, but it has not yet been clarified as to why. Who is setting that schedule? What's that urgency about? (Pretty sure that's a plot device unique to the show, as there's nothing I'm aware of in Tolkien that explains this) It's possible that Annatar has already revealed himself in this world, but hasn't appeared in our story yet; either way, that's a different spoiler comment. For these purposes, the reunion of Durin and Elrond is significant in the specific context of the glow-box, and that's underscored in the scene with Durin and, er, Older Durin: One of the Rings of Power Annatar gifts to the Elves is made entirely of mithril, and the Doors of Durin/Gates of Moria are made of a mithril alloy. So two things we know that ultimately do exist in the Second Age of Middle-earth but have been shown to not yet exist in our story hinge on the discovery of mithril. The discovery of that metal is a key turning point that drives much of the legendarium that follows, and it's something that really doesn't get much coverage; as I've been thinking about it this past week, mithril is about as important to this story as is water in Chinatown or oil in There Will Be Blood.

[nocera]

This is depressing.

[eddy]

Who had the bright idea to release new episodes Fridays at 9PM? What a dumb thing to do

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

Pretty sure it's at midnight now.

[eddy]

That's even dumber unless it's Thursday. Now I have to wait until Saturday to watch it? Episode 3 isn't there now, so I guess it's Saturday now.

[eddy]

Oh ****, today is Thursday. ****

[DigitalGypsy66]

lol @eddy Short week has me all screwed up too.