JRR Tolkien Super Duper Mega Thread

[DigitalGypsy66]

Hearing really, really good things on the premiere episodes...only a couple of days away now. It's funny, I was looking forward to this a lot more than House of Dragons...but now I have two excellent shows to keep up with. Nice.

[tifosi77]

If you have a Fire TV/Stick, Amazon posted a short (5 mins?) preview of Elrond arriving in Khazad-dûm and meeting Durin and his Dwarven folk. The visuals are absolutely spectacular (easily on par with similar stuff from the LOTR films imo), and the scene itself was pretty entertaining.

I be one stoked Tif.

[tifosi77]

Early spoiler-free reviews from a couple of trusted outlets (Nerd Of the Rings and John Campea) are pretty solid. Both echo the same sentiment that the first episode is a bit draggy in terms of pacing, so be warned.

[Dickie Dunn]

The AV Club, which has largely fallen apart, loved it.

[tifosi77]

After two episodes, I may have a few questions (horses are a thing in the Second Age, right?), but I honestly don't really have any complaints. (Except that, despite the welcomed use of maps, the editing does not really make it super clear that certain regions they're cross-cutting between are as geographically separated as Austin and Seattle. Like, I come to this show already knowing this information and it's still not super clear to me.)

I spent the better part of an afternoon recently blacklisting as many of these hyper-negative YT channels as I could, but I think one made it through into my Recommended tape this AM. Thumbnail showed a guy in standup testimonial fashion with footage of the show running behind him while he was reading from a book. If you're fact-checking the show in progress against books, do kindly find the nearest volcano to hurl yourself into. It's an adaptation, get over your fandom.

And you know what? Sometimes the adaptation makes the story better. You know how Quint dies in the book Jaws? He gets caught up in fouled harpoon lines trailing the shark and and is lashed to the animal's side and drowns.... just like Ahab and the White Whale in case the metaphor wasn't on-the-nose enough through 300 pages of novel. The movie's better. You know how the Hobbits set off on their journey out of The Shire, and then hang out with Tom Bombadil and the plot does not move forward for like two entire chapters? The movie's better for omitting him. You know how Faramir says of the Ring that he wouldn't pick it up if he saw it laying by the wayside of the road, after spending the better part of two (very large) novels establishing the total corruptibility and malign influence of the Ring? Wait, why not just give the Ring to that guy then? Everyone goes guano loco over why they didn't get the Eagles to take the Ring to Mt Doom, but they could've just given it to Faramir, who seems to give zero f**ks about the thing. The movie's are better for making him an obstacle.

They say making any piece of big-budget content in the entertainment industry is like standing in front of 100 tire swings going back and forth in front of you, all out-of-phase with each other, and you've got an archery target at the far end of the swings; getting to the finished product is like shooting an arrow through those tires at the exact moment they're all in alignment and hitting the target. It's hard enough doing this without having internet commando-dweebs fact-checking source material that technically doesn't even exist for the show.

They couldn't even show Ungoliant (the great spider) eating the two trees of Valinor because Amazon's rights don't include The Silmarilion (I'm sorta surprised they got away with as much as they have done already just through two episodes), instead snuffing them out via an amorphously menacing cloud. Go with the flow, don't freak out.

Also.......

I hypothesized before that Meteor Man was Gandalf, despite him not canonically appearing in Middle-earth until the Third Age when he was discovered by Glorfindel (who iirc thousands of years later also rescued Frodo from the Nazgûl at Weathertop, not Arwen), who in the Second Age was sort of this re-birthed Super-Elf kind of being that was a quasi-Maiar in his powers. Meteor Man clearly isn't Elfkind, and it still wouldn't surprise me that they'd seek to include an immensely popular character like Gandalf in their story anachronistically, but I'm leaning more towards Meteor Man being another Maiar. The only problem with that is that afaik the only named Maiar in the SE are either clearly Elven dudes in appearance, or ladyfolk. But maybe that's just a writing hurdle or I'm just misremembering.

I do not believe Meteor Man is Sauron: 1) The Dark Lord comes to Middle-earth to hide from the Valar, and announcing his arrival in a way that's visible to literally any being over thousands of miles who decides to look up isn't exactly subtle; 2) when Gil-galad tasks Elrond with assisting Celebrimbor with his great task, the implication (as I read it) is that he's building the forge that will ultimately be used to make the Rings of Power themselves, which in turns implies that Annatar is already a thing at this point in the telling, and as we know Finkle is Einhorn Annatar is Sauron; 3) the rune character and star pattern looks not unlike Sauron's sigil, which could mean he's either openly stating who he is (which, again, would be stupid), or he's stating his intentions ("Help me find this being......... so that I may smite him!"); 4) Annatar adopts a fair visage and the Stranger is.... not.

I think it would sort of suck if MM was Sauron.

[nocera]

I haven’t watched it yet but Amazon suspended reviews since it was getting 1-star review bombed. Apparently there’s a black female elf and the neck beards can’t handle it.

[tifosi77]

She's a Dwarf.

He's an Elf.

Get it right, man.

[Gaucho]

After two episodes, I may have a few questions (horses are a thing in the Second Age, right?), but I honestly don't really have any complaints. (Except that, despite the welcomed use of maps, the editing does not really make it super clear that certain regions they're cross-cutting between are as geographically separated as Austin and Seattle. Like, I come to this show already knowing this information and it's still not super clear to me.)

I spent the better part of an afternoon recently blacklisting as many of these hyper-negative YT channels as I could, but I think one made it through into my Recommended tape this AM. Thumbnail showed a guy in standup testimonial fashion with footage of the show running behind him while he was reading from a book. If you're fact-checking the show in progress against books, do kindly find the nearest volcano to hurl yourself into. It's an adaptation, get over your fandom.

And you know what? Sometimes the adaptation makes the story better. You know how Quint dies in the book Jaws? He gets caught up in fouled harpoon lines trailing the shark and and is lashed to the animal's side and drowns.... just like Ahab and the White Whale in case the metaphor wasn't on-the-nose enough through 300 pages of novel. The movie's better. You know how the Hobbits set off on their journey out of The Shire, and then hang out with Tom Bombadil and the plot does not move forward for like two entire chapters? The movie's better for omitting him. You know how Faramir says of the Ring that he wouldn't pick it up if he saw it laying by the wayside of the road, after spending the better part of two (very large) novels establishing the total corruptibility and malign influence of the Ring? Wait, why not just give the Ring to that guy then? Everyone goes guano loco over why they didn't get the Eagles to take the Ring to Mt Doom, but they could've just given it to Faramir, who seems to give zero f**ks about the thing. The movie's are better for making him an obstacle.

They say making any piece of big-budget content in the entertainment industry is like standing in front of 100 tire swings going back and forth in front of you, all out-of-phase with each other, and you've got an archery target at the far end of the swings; getting to the finished product is like shooting an arrow through those tires at the exact moment they're all in alignment and hitting the target. It's hard enough doing this without having internet commando-dweebs fact-checking source material that technically doesn't even exist for the show.

They couldn't even show Ungoliant (the great spider) eating the two trees of Valinor because Amazon's rights don't include The Silmarilion (I'm sorta surprised they got away with as much as they have done already just through two episodes), instead snuffing them out via an amorphously menacing cloud. Go with the flow, don't freak out.

Also.......

I hypothesized before that Meteor Man was Gandalf, despite him not canonically appearing in Middle-earth until the Third Age when he was discovered by Glorfindel (who iirc thousands of years later also rescued Frodo from the Nazgûl at Weathertop, not Arwen), who in the Second Age was sort of this re-birthed Super-Elf kind of being that was a quasi-Maiar in his powers. Meteor Man clearly isn't Elfkind, and it still wouldn't surprise me that they'd seek to include an immensely popular character like Gandalf in their story anachronistically, but I'm leaning more towards Meteor Man being another Maiar. The only problem with that is that afaik the only named Maiar in the SE are either clearly Elven dudes in appearance, or ladyfolk. But maybe that's just a writing hurdle or I'm just misremembering.

I do not believe Meteor Man is Sauron: 1) The Dark Lord comes to Middle-earth to hide from the Valar, and announcing his arrival in a way that's visible to literally any being over thousands of miles who decides to look up isn't exactly subtle; 2) when Gil-galad tasks Elrond with assisting Celebrimbor with his great task, the implication (as I read it) is that he's building the forge that will ultimately be used to make the Rings of Power themselves, which in turns implies that Annatar is already a thing at this point in the telling, and as we know Finkle is Einhorn Annatar is Sauron; 3) the rune character and star pattern looks not unlike Sauron's sigil, which could mean he's either openly stating who he is (which, again, would be stupid), or he's stating his intentions ("Help me find this being......... so that I may smite him!"); 4) Annatar adopts a fair visage and the Stranger is.... not.

I think it would sort of suck if MM was Sauron.

10/10 post, would read again.

[eddy]

Great stuff tif. I loved what I saw from the first two episodes, they are going all in here. I definitely need to watch them again. There is a lot of nerdy **** here and I'm down for it.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

My guess is that the Stranger is

Tom Bombadil

[meow]

This show better hurry up and make me care about some of these characters. I only care about Bronwyn because she has her cannons out.

[Kane]

My guess is that the Stranger is

Tom Bombadil

Not likely, unless they ignore canon completely. Tom is known to have been on Arda longer than most everything - even plant life.

[Dickie Dunn]

How do you nerds know this ****.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

My guess is that the Stranger is

Tom Bombadil

Not likely, unless they ignore canon completely. Tom is known to have been on Arda longer than most everything - even plant life.

That was my initial thought as well, but they have shown that they aren't afraid to deviate from canon.

[tifosi77]

Oof I think that would be hella bad. That's no longer just 'adaptation' imo.

Tom could not be arsed about the Ring and the related machinations, and was quite immune to its influence. It wouldn't make any sense to introduce him as a character in the Ring's origin story unless you're pretty much using him in name only. Which would be a super bassackward nod to fans who will be the only ones blowing a gasket over the change, and so would be dumb.

The thing I keep coming back to is how in the prologue the Elf party remarks that their torches don't emit heat in that place (presumably Angbad), and how Meteor Man's, er, meteor isn't hot........ similar to when Gandalf burns the envelope with Bilbo's ring and reveals it to be the One......... "It's quite cool."

[Kane]

I saw speculation that it could be one of the Blue Wizards. I think they arrived in the Second Age, ahead of Saurman, Gandalf, and Radaghast.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Yea, the more I've thought about it, it would be dumb for MM to be TB.

[tifosi77]

I saw speculation that it could be one of the Blue Wizards. I think they arrived in the Second Age, ahead of Saurman, Gandalf, and Radaghast.

That was one thought I had going back to the trailers. But, much like crabs, the Blue Wizards worked in pairs. So if MM is one of those Maiar Istar beings, there should be another one at some point

One other thing that got me thinking. The way they have MM's arrival edited is a little confusing. On the one hand, we see Gil-galad reacting (Eregion), and then Elrond (who i think is at Khazad-dûm at this point, but might still be in Eregion), and Nori seeing it where it ultimately comes down. All well and good. Except we also see Guns-Out and McBroody looking at the thing, too....... they're like 1,500 miles south in Torharad, in an area which later becomes known as goddamn Mordor. For them to also see it would mean the object more or less lapped Middle-earth, and arrived in the Gladden River area coming south-to-north where all of the other characters would've seen it traveling north-to-south.

An answer to this which would also answer my Blue Wizard point, is that there are two Meteor Men and we've only met the one so far.

I might be misremembering, so I'll re-watch the sequence again.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Watching Fellowship of the Rings, again, with the family and the question came up: why didn't Gandalf have the Great Eagles take the ring up to Mount Doom? Could've saved everyone a lot of trouble.

[tifosi77]

As I understand it, the reason was twofold, although they don't really go into it in the movies.

- The Eagles don't take requests, and the War Of The Ring was not their fight. They had fought with the other creatures against the first Enemy in ye olde days, and that was enough. Helping Gandalf escape Orthanc and then Zirakzigil were sort of favors, and the final favor was to rescue Frodo and Sam from Mt Doom; i think after that the Eagles sort of disappeared from Middle -earth.

- Sauron was beset with an overconfidence that didn't foresee danger in the form of Halflings. (Sort of the way the Empire didn't have a tighter defense at the Death Star because they didn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat.) He was ready for Eagles and could summon the fell beasts of the Nazgúl to deal with them. But he was light on anti-Hobbit measures. Just didn't think there was any conceivable danger there

[DigitalGypsy66]

That makes sense.

[Kane]

Plus, we also got to seen an eagle get bodied during the ep. 1 montage. I'm sure afterwards, they were all "miss me with that sht, fam".

[eddy]

Watched the episodes again. This is how exactly I was expecting the wheel of time series to look and feel. Very excited going forward. They did a really fantastic job with these so far.

[DigitalGypsy66]

We enjoyed the show, too, so much so that we are starting the trilogy again. The kids were really engaged with both; not bad considering they are teenagers and hate almost anything we do as a family.

[Gaucho]

Eregion