Military Affairs & History

shafnutz05
Posts: 50380
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Military Affairs & History

Postby shafnutz05 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:35 pm

This is from a couple of years ago, but it's some crazy-arse sht.


DigitalGypsy66
Posts: 19680
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Iodine State

Military Affairs & History

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Paul Allen's company found U.S.S. Hornet in the Solomon Islands: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/69386409 ... ific-ocean

A survivor was notified of the location and watched them explore it live. He told them to get the $40 he left in his locker! 😂

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:07 pm

Paul Allen is a great man.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:24 pm

*was

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:35 pm

Paul Allen the idea lives on.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:41 pm

It's like Batman

Shyster
Posts: 13098
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:08 pm
Location: Nullius in verba

Military Affairs & History

Postby Shyster » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:06 pm

Neato.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:34 am

Moved here from the Movie thread because I get all nerdy in my reply...
tifosi77

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26 ... production
In the photos, the Tomcat is also packing an AIM-9 Sidewinder with orange bands, indicating it is a live round. This is certainly for the purposes of filming. The USS Theodore Roosevelt is rumored to be used for the movie's production, so that is likely the carrier we are seeing the Tomcat on. There is a chance that it will set sail with it onboard, which would indicate extensive shooting of the Tomcat while at sea.

Also, keep in mind that this is not a flying aircraft. It is being used as a static prop for ground footage. There are no flying Tomcats anywhere in the world aside from in Iran. The Navy retired the type in 2006 and most were either chopped up or demilitarized and sent to museums. Getting one flying for the movie would be very costly and nearly impossible due to red tape surrounding the Tomcat's sensitive export controls due to their continued use by Iran. There are plenty of other issues as well.
I find it hard to believe that the Navy or Air Force doesn't have a fully functional F-14 hanging around somewhere for publicity shots etc. That's a shame about these expensive jets, is that private collectors can't afford to keep them airworthy like Mustangs, Spitfires, and other old warbirds.
This popped up on my Facebook last night on one of the military aviation sites I follow. It is nothing short of a crime against humanity and a travesty of galactic proportions.
:lol: ;)
One of the best parts about moving back to LA is that I again have easy access to the Planes of Fame airshow in Chino. Warbirds galore, tons of vets sharing their experiences, such a great event.

Now, tread lightly.......
The story notes Iran still flies the jet. But it's not so much that Iran still operates the aircraft today, it's that Iran was the only export customer of the F-14. They took delivery of 79 aircraft before the revolution, roughly half of which are still airworthy and operated today. When the US Navy retired the type, the government didn't want any components finding their way onto the black market and in the hands of the IRIAF, which is why nearly all of the 700+ Tomcats got chopped. (As I write this, I think all intact Tomcats still at AMARG are awaiting transfer to a permanent static display; just about all other 'Cats are already at a museum, or have become soda cans by now. Which makes me immensely sad.) This is mostly a concern regarding the Hughes AN/AWG-9 radar and the Pratt & Whitney TF-30 engines of the old A-type, which is what Iran flies. The B- and D-model used different - and vastly more powerful and useful - General Electric engines; the D- also had a modern digital avionics and flight control suite, but only a few dozen of them ever existed, and they were exclusive to the USN, but it was the definitive version of the F-14, and so most of the museum birds that got to displays post-2006 are Ds.

More modern tactical aircraft are rarely going to find their way into private civilian hands. Those aircraft have to be completely de-militarized before they can be transferred, and the more modern the aircraft, the more time consuming and costly that process will be. Guns, radios, sensors.... it's a complicated evolution. Will there be the odd example of a newer jet in civvie hands? Sure. I know there is at least one Su-27 (which is a supremely badass fighter) owned by a guy in like Wisconsin or Minnesota or something, and I think there are a few MiG-29s in private hands. But those are both Soviet-era designs from Russia. Generally speaking, Vietnam-era jets are probably the most current US types you're ever going to see in private hands. To that end, there is one F-4 Phantom in private hands, and it was something like 13th or 14th production aircraft ever (which is to say, it is very old, and at risk of breaking a hip every time the engines are lit up); I've seen an A-4 Skyhawk at airshows; The Heritage Flight Foundation is in the process of adding an F-5 Tiger (also known as the "MiG-28") to their roster and getting it and its pilot-owner certified for demonstrations; and I think that's kind of about it. I would be very surprised if we ever see a teen-series or later aircraft in private hands and in a registered airworthy condition. Maybe prototypes of those jets, as those often have bare-bones avionics and no weapons systems. But usually there are only one or two of those built (like for fly offs), which makes them exceedingly rare and valuable as relics. (Because of its relationship with Northrop, the Western Museum of Flight in Torrance actually has a YF-17 and a YF-23 on static, if you're ever out this way and interested in seeing two examples of jets the military took a pass on lol)

(And when I say 'private' I pretty much mean 'a guy'. I exclude companies like ATAC who obtain surplus jets and use them to provide dissimilar air combat training [DACT] to the military on a contractor basis. They have to go through a pretty strict vetting process to obtain and certify their aircraft, and at that they only operate foreign designs.)

DigitalGypsy66
Posts: 19680
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Iodine State

Military Affairs & History

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:53 am

I almost originally posted the article here, but I thought some movie fans wanted to know about it. :lol:

In 30 years I want to see a Warthog at an airshow.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:30 pm

In 30 years, Hogs might still be in active service. :lol:

DigitalGypsy66
Posts: 19680
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Iodine State

Military Affairs & History

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:10 am

I stumbled across a couple of interesting articles on combat photography and subsequent controversy in regards to the subjects or myths behind the photos. Even the famous V-J day Times Square kissing photo was controversial, as multiple people wanted to take credit for being in the photo (the confirmed sailor passed away a day or so ago).

The first are Robert Capa's famous D-Day photos. You are probably familiar with the blurry photo of the 1st ID soldier wading onto Omaha Beach and how Capa supposedly rushed back to England to get the pictures sent to Life magazine in the U.S. and how the film was left too long under a drying lamp and melted, and a dedicated photo editor saved a handful of pictures from multiple rolls of film. The author of the article - a veteran and expert photographer - called BS on the whole story. Capa basically took only the 11 or so pictures on the beach and wanted to get back to London ASAP to get the first pictures from D-Day to press. The author does some exceptional forensic work matching other famous newsreel films to where Capa's photos were taken on Easy Red beach, and even a few movie frames where Capa is filmed heading back to England (he holds the clapboard for a Coast Guard film unit in fact). Really good read: https://petapixel.com/2019/02/16/debunk ... -on-d-day/

The other article covers the Vietnam war, specifically a photograph during the battle of Hue. Mark Bowden wrote an exceptional book on the Hue battle a couple of years ago, and he focused on the famous photograph of wounded Marines on the back of a tank being evacuated. He identified the wounded Marine with the help of the original photographer, even though that wounded Marine had been identified by People magazine back in the 1980s. Another photographer was near by, and photographed the wounded Marine receiving care prior to the famous picture being taken. Really cool stuff.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... arine.html

Sorry for the dissertation on here this morning.

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:50 am

I have work I really need to do, but man what a riveting read.

The way Vietnam Vets were treated in the 60's and 70's remains a national shame.

shafnutz05
Posts: 50380
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Military Affairs & History

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:48 pm

The way Vietnam Vets were treated in the 60's and 70's remains a national shame.
:thumb:

shafnutz05
Posts: 50380
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Military Affairs & History

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:48 pm

I stumbled across a couple of interesting articles on combat photography and subsequent controversy in regards to the subjects or myths behind the photos. Even the famous V-J day Times Square kissing photo was controversial, as multiple people wanted to take credit for being in the photo (the confirmed sailor passed away a day or so ago).

The first are Robert Capa's famous D-Day photos. You are probably familiar with the blurry photo of the 1st ID soldier wading onto Omaha Beach and how Capa supposedly rushed back to England to get the pictures sent to Life magazine in the U.S. and how the film was left too long under a drying lamp and melted, and a dedicated photo editor saved a handful of pictures from multiple rolls of film. The author of the article - a veteran and expert photographer - called BS on the whole story. Capa basically took only the 11 or so pictures on the beach and wanted to get back to London ASAP to get the first pictures from D-Day to press. The author does some exceptional forensic work matching other famous newsreel films to where Capa's photos were taken on Easy Red beach, and even a few movie frames where Capa is filmed heading back to England (he holds the clapboard for a Coast Guard film unit in fact). Really good read: https://petapixel.com/2019/02/16/debunk ... -on-d-day/

The other article covers the Vietnam war, specifically a photograph during the battle of Hue. Mark Bowden wrote an exceptional book on the Hue battle a couple of years ago, and he focused on the famous photograph of wounded Marines on the back of a tank being evacuated. He identified the wounded Marine with the help of the original photographer, even though that wounded Marine had been identified by People magazine back in the 1980s. Another photographer was near by, and photographed the wounded Marine receiving care prior to the famous picture being taken. Really cool stuff.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... arine.html

Sorry for the dissertation on here this morning.
No need to apologize, this is a great post!! Thanks DG.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:02 pm

The way Vietnam Vets were treated in the 60's and 70's remains a national shame.
:thumb:
As vets, I wanted to make sure you both got tagged here.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Hue is the first place I've ever visited that was a battlefield for American forces on foreign soil in relatively recent history. And I'd be lying if it didn't really impact me in a significant manner. (Like I said last year, it's a good thing we watched the Ken Burns documentary after we went.) Seeing the scars of combat on the structures - particularly at the Citadel, which was largely un-repaired - focuses your mind on what it must have been like trading fire in the middle of a large city, in and around the civilian population. To have sent teenagers off to that crucible to do violence in the name of our country, and to then be so callous towards them upon their return.... regardless of your political leanings or thoughts about the war itself, very few people covered themselves in glory in the 1960s.

shafnutz05
Posts: 50380
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Military Affairs & History

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:06 pm

The way Vietnam Vets were treated in the 60's and 70's remains a national shame.
:thumb:
As vets, I wanted to make sure you both got tagged here.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Hue is the first place I've ever visited that was a battlefield for American forces on foreign soil in relatively recent history. And I'd be lying if it didn't really impact me in a significant manner. (Like I said last year, it's a good thing we watched the Ken Burns documentary after we went.) Seeing the scars of combat on the structures - particularly at the Citadel, which was largely un-repaired - focuses your mind on what it must have been like trading fire in the middle of a large city, in and around the civilian population. To have sent teenagers off to that crucible to do violence in the name of our country, and to then be so callous towards them upon their return.... regardless of your political leanings or thoughts about the war itself, very few people covered themselves in glory in the 1960s.
Well said.

Nelson Demille's "Word of Honor" is an entertaining read in which Hue is one of the focal points of the story. Demille pulls from his own experiences in Vietnam as a 1LT.

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:07 pm

The first are Robert Capa's famous D-Day photos. You are probably familiar with the blurry photo of the 1st ID soldier wading onto Omaha Beach and how Capa supposedly rushed back to England to get the pictures sent to Life magazine in the U.S. and how the film was left too long under a drying lamp and melted, and a dedicated photo editor saved a handful of pictures from multiple rolls of film. The author of the article - a veteran and expert photographer - called BS on the whole story. Capa basically took only the 11 or so pictures on the beach and wanted to get back to London ASAP to get the first pictures from D-Day to press. The author does some exceptional forensic work matching other famous newsreel films to where Capa's photos were taken on Easy Red beach, and even a few movie frames where Capa is filmed heading back to England (he holds the clapboard for a Coast Guard film unit in fact). Really good read: https://petapixel.com/2019/02/16/debunk ... -on-d-day/
What what what...?! Capa's story is one of the most famous in all of combat journalism. next you're going to try telling me he didn't die by stepping on a landmine in Vietnam. Pft.

:wink:

Seriously, though, some incredible images. The basis for the visual style of Saving Private Ryan; removing lens filters, turning shutters 90° to the aperture, etc.
The other article covers the Vietnam war, specifically a photograph during the battle of Hue. Mark Bowden wrote an exceptional book on the Hue battle a couple of years ago, and he focused on the famous photograph of wounded Marines on the back of a tank being evacuated.
The only Bowden book I've read was Black Hawk Down, which was excellent. Was unaware of this tome, so I think I have some shopping to do. :thumb:

DigitalGypsy66
Posts: 19680
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Iodine State

Military Affairs & History

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:09 pm

Yeah, it's really good. Even with the photo mis-caption (which he notes in the afterword of the paperback edition).

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:45 pm

The way Vietnam Vets were treated in the 60's and 70's remains a national shame.
:thumb:
As vets, I wanted to make sure you both got tagged here.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Hue is the first place I've ever visited that was a battlefield for American forces on foreign soil in relatively recent history. And I'd be lying if it didn't really impact me in a significant manner. (Like I said last year, it's a good thing we watched the Ken Burns documentary after we went.) Seeing the scars of combat on the structures - particularly at the Citadel, which was largely un-repaired - focuses your mind on what it must have been like trading fire in the middle of a large city, in and around the civilian population. To have sent teenagers off to that crucible to do violence in the name of our country, and to then be so callous towards them upon their return.... regardless of your political leanings or thoughts about the war itself, very few people covered themselves in glory in the 1960s.
Well said.

Nelson Demille's "Word of Honor" is an entertaining read in which Hue is one of the focal points of the story. Demille pulls from his own experiences in Vietnam as a 1LT.
Ditto to you both.

Hue is just an insane battle to contemplate. Reading about Vietnam is what moved me to turn against Iraq/Afghanistan and become generally isolationist in foreign policy. Such a waste.

dodint
Posts: 59160
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:39 pm
Location: Cheer up, bіtch!
Contact:

Military Affairs & History

Postby dodint » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:47 pm

Going to Iraq/Afghan is what turned me isolationist. ;)

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:49 pm

Thankfully I got out before Iraq, and even Afghanistan became a big thing. :)

tifosi77
Posts: 51513
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Military Affairs & History

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:23 pm

Hue is just an insane battle to contemplate. Reading about Vietnam is what moved me to turn against Iraq/Afghanistan and become generally isolationist in foreign policy. Such a waste.
I took a 16-week course on the history of the war in college, and between that the Burns thing, the inescapable conclusion I've come to is summed up by the word "avoidable".

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:27 pm

I'm not sure a more useless war has ever been fought.

At least an argument, even from just basic "Son protecting Father", could be made for Iraq.

Vietnam served no purpose. At all.

DigitalGypsy66
Posts: 19680
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Iodine State

Military Affairs & History

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:10 pm

The Red Menace had to be stopped at all costs, I guess. Hindsight is 20/20, but there was a real fear of a Communist domino effect.

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Military Affairs & History

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:17 pm

There was also a bit of a French push to help out that got us sucked at the end of the Eisenhower administration.

As a bit of alternative history I bet with no Vietnam we get involved in the Congo and end up saving(?) Rhodesia.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 94 guests