Any Chess Players?

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Postby count2infinity » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:17 am

Magnus had to play Hans in an online tournament... he resigned after one moved and said nothing about it.

What a f*cking baby.

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Postby Gaucho » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:22 am

boo

LeopardLetang
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Postby LeopardLetang » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:10 am

I love it

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Postby Tomas » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:41 am

WTF :shock:

How the game has evolved! :)

I might have posted about this already (too lazy to look it up), but during the Karpov-Korchnoi World Championship match in 197(?), I believe Korchnoi camp accused Karpov camp of cheating through sending Karpov a blueberry yogurt as a game snack.

(The story made a such impression on 10+ year old me growing up behind the Iron Curtain when I read about it in a book, because at that time, the only choices of yougurt available was "red vs. yellow yogurt" (yogurt with little bit of red or yellow spread at the bottom). So "there can be a blueberry yogurt!!!!" was one of the life-forming revelations about superiority of free markets over socialism! :) )

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Postby Gaucho » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:05 pm

For this and other amusing anecdotes, I can recommend this fine book:

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LeopardLetang
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Postby LeopardLetang » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:37 am

Is this evidence that statistics people would accept as proof of over the board cheating during live broadcasts? Or is it not enough data for more than adding suspicion?


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https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... &start=100

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Postby count2infinity » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:14 pm

It’s certainly not “proof”. I’d imagine you could find players that do worse in live events due to the pressures involved. It’s definitely odd, but no. Not proof.

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Postby LeopardLetang » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:50 pm

*thumbs up*

i was asking honestly because some people were reacting as if it is so statistically significant to be certain.

i think i figured out that "live" broadcast events meant that they were broadcasting live online. therefore someone could follow along and help him. the games that weren't live simply meant they were delayed 15 minutes before releasing the moves online (i assume to avoid that kind of cheating?). so it wouldn't have been a pressure thing

edit: i may be confused on the live thing.

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Postby crusherstasiak » Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:20 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chess-chea ... 1664911524

"Chess Investigation Finds That U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times"
"An internal report reviewed by The Wall Street Journal alleges a previously unknown pattern of likely widespread cheating by Hans Moke Niemann, the player whose September victory over Magnus Carlsen has rocked the chess world"

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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:22 pm

Image

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Postby Tomas » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:03 pm

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Niemann likely received illegal assistance in more than 100 online games, as recently as 2020. Those matches included contests in which prize money was on the line. The site uses a variety of cheating-detection tools, including analytics that compare moves to those recommended by chess engines, which are capable of beating even the greatest human players every time.

The report states that Niemann privately confessed to the allegations, and that he was subsequently banned from the site for a period of time.

“Looking purely at rating, Hans should be classified as a member of this group of top young players. While we don’t doubt that Hans is a talented player, we note that his results are statistically extraordinary.”

“I would never, could even fathom doing it, in a real game,” he said. The Chess.com report contradicts those statements. It says several prize-money events are included in the 100-plus suspect games and that he was live-streaming the contests during 25 of them. It adds that he was 17 years old during the most recent violations, which subsequently led Chess.com to close his account. A letter sent to Niemann included in the report notes “blatant cheating” to improve his rating in various games, including in one against Russian chess star Ian Nepomniachtchi, Carlsen’s most recent challenger for the World Chess Championship.

The report also addresses Niemann’s postgame analysis of the moves from his game against Carlsen, which top players say showed a lack of understanding of the positions he had just played. It says Niemann’s analysis seems “to be at odds with the level of preparation that Hans claimed was at play in the game and the level of analysis needed to defeat the World Chess Champion.”

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Postby Shyster » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:10 pm

I haven't been following all that closely, but I'd never heard of Niemann prior to him beating Carlsen (with the black pieces no less) at the Sinquefield Cup. People capable of doing that don't just show up out of (relatively) nowhere.

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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:10 am

I haven't been following all that closely, but I'd never heard of Niemann prior to him beating Carlsen (with the black pieces no less) at the Sinquefield Cup. People capable of doing that don't just show up out of (relatively) nowhere.
He didn’t just show up out of no where. He’s been identified as a young prodigy for a while. Saying he came out of no where is like saying Pragg came out of no where. He admitted to cheating online twice but this points to more. In a live game though, we still have no proof and analysis of live games hasn’t found anything conclusive.

At this point, Magnus started a **** storm over a guy who was already known to cheat at times online without clarifying any reasons. Everyone assumes it was because Hans was or us cheated but that’s a big piece of the puzzle everyone is missing. I don’t think Hans is or isn’t guilty and will keep waiting to see some evidence of live cheating.

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Postby LeopardLetang » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:20 am

Insane amount of GMs admitted to cheating. It seems like it got to where if you didn't cheat you weren't trying. That wouldn't sit well with the best in the game who don't need to cheat. I'm glad Magnus is shining the spot light on this in a way only he really could. It was win win for him especially after the loss. His reputation was solid enough that people looked past the sour grapes. I assume the immediate support of high ranked GMs was more about supporting anti cheating throughout chess than believing Niemann cheated over the board in that 1 game.

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 pm

Chess isn't exactly a huge game here in the states. I doubt many people know the top 25 chess players. In fact, as AI look at the top 25, Leinier Dominguez Perez at #12, Gukesh D at #18, Arjun Erigaisi at #20, Dmitry Andreikin at #21, Le Quang Liem at #22, Parham Maghsoodloo at #24, Nikita Vitiugov at #25.... all of them I don't think I've heard of.

Off games just happen sometimes. Even in the review of the Hans game, Magnus made mistakes, Hans made mistakes, it wasn't perfect chess by either player.

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Postby LeopardLetang » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:14 pm

Magnus played terribly in that game is the consensus

edit: I don't follow chess really. But I think off games don't happen like that to Magnus from a player rated like Niemann with black. I think Magnus psyched himself out worrying about cheating.

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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:46 pm

Magnus played terribly in that game is the consensus

edit: I don't follow chess really. But I think off games don't happen like that to Magnus from a player rated like Niemann with black. I think Magnus psyched himself out worrying about cheating.
Magnus will regularly take off lines and moves to challenge himself. He’s been at the top for A LONG time. Usually his silliness pays off with a win and everyone jerks him off because “wow Magnus did it again.”

IMO in this instance doing this to a 19 year old when you’re the chess champion and not saying anything is the move of a big **** baby.

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Postby count2infinity » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:22 am

Hans won his first game in the US championship... as black.

They scanned his entire body, plus his banana (not a euphemism) upon entrance. :lol:

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Postby Pavel Bure » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:36 am

Hans won his first game in the US championship... as black.

They scanned his entire body, plus his banana (not a euphemism) upon entrance. :lol:
Telepathic sex link. Demolition Man come to life. He also had 3 shells installed in the bathroom citing sensitive rectal needs.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:20 pm

Things just got very spicy.
Niemann has defended himself in a number of fora before, though Thursday’s civil suit features his most comprehensive version of the events of the past two months. In Niemann’s telling of the scandal, the cheating accusations against him were cooked up by Carlsen then amplified by Chess.com and their cronies because Carlsen was embarrassed at having lost to Niemann at the Sinquefield Cup, at a time when he was chasing the first-ever 2900 FIDE rating and as Chess.com was closing in on an $83 million acquisition of Carlsen’s Play Magnus organization. The confluence of the cheating accusations with that eight-figure business deal between Carlsen and Chess.com is an odd, underappreciated facet of this scandal, one that Niemann’s lawyers hammer on in the suit. They also report, for the first time in great detail, how Carlsen used his stature to get the tournament to introduce enhanced security checks and also how he tried to get Niemann tossed from the tournament.

The most intriguing aspect of the suit is the way it centers Chess.com’s business relationships, particularly with Carlsen, and its outsized importance within the chess world. For example, Niemann’s lawyers press hard on the timing of Chess.com banning his account shortly after the Carlsen accusation and the odd turn their report on Niemann’s history of online cheating takes towards speculation about possible over-the-board cheating. They make it clear that Chess.com, while important, does not host FIDE-sanctioned events and has no jurisdiction over anything that happens off of Chess.com. Yet their report is stuffed with pages and pages of data that heavily implies Niemann cheated over the board. Niemann also claims they intended to release their report on the first day of the U.S. Chess Championships to deliberately cause as much damage to him as they could.

Prominent chess streamer Hikaru Nakamura is named as a defendant as well, and Niemann claims that Nakamura colluded with Chess.com and Carlsen to amplify the accusations against him and draw the line between Carlsen’s cryptic actions at the Sinquefield Cup in a way that Carlsen could not. I think it’s a stretch to regard Nakamura’s typically bombastic streaming output on the scandal and see active collusion rather than Nakamura doing what he always does, especially since Nakamura’s most important business relationship is with Twitch, not Chess.com. Still, to hear Niemann tell it, the three most powerful forces in chess teamed up to protect Carlsen and destroy Niemann’s career in the process.

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Postby crusherstasiak » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:22 pm

never thought i'd hear the name 'hans neiman' while listening to the mark madden show

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Postby Pavel Bure » Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:36 pm

Naka just couldn’t help but row his ******-canoe up speculation creek. Still, I don’t see how him being in the lawsuit holds up.

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Postby crusherstasiak » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:26 am

Naka just couldn’t help but row his ******-canoe up speculation creek. Still, I don’t see how him being in the lawsuit holds up.
well, fabi/ levon / ian/ naroditsky /kamsky -to name a few- jumped right on board naka's boat.

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Postby Shyster » Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:01 am

The reactions I've seen to the suit from legal Twitter are that the defamation claims against Carlsen would be an uphill battle, but may get past a motion to dismiss. Niemann likely counts as a "public figure," and it's more difficult to make out defamation claims when the person allegedly being defamed holds that status. When the case involves a “public figure,” the plaintiff must prove “actual malice,” which requires proof that the defamatory statements were made with actual knowledge they were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were true or false. It's along the lines of proving that the defendant meant to say something false, not merely that the defendant did say something false.

The antitrust claims in the complaint seem to be far more of a stretch, and they may not even make it to discovery. Also, the claims against Nakamura are much more shaky than the claims against Carlsen.

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Postby Pavel Bure » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:38 am

The reactions I've seen to the suit from legal Twitter are that the defamation claims against Carlsen would be an uphill battle, but may get past a motion to dismiss. Niemann likely counts as a "public figure," and it's more difficult to make out defamation claims when the person allegedly being defamed holds that status. When the case involves a “public figure,” the plaintiff must prove “actual malice,” which requires proof that the defamatory statements were made with actual knowledge they were false or with reckless disregard of whether they were true or false. It's along the lines of proving that the defendant meant to say something false, not merely that the defendant did say something false.

The antitrust claims in the complaint seem to be far more of a stretch, and they may not even make it to discovery. Also, the claims against Nakamura are much more shaky than the claims against Carlsen.
Seems like it might just be a “knock it off” suit. The titans of the Chess community are basically trying to snuff out a 19 year old.

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