2018 Pittsburgh Pirates In-Season Thread

Postby **willeyeam** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:43 am

The Pirates were over $100MM for a few years and dropped to 80ish at the moment.. The expectation would be that they'd get back to that level. No ones saying they're gonna spend $200MM anytime soon.

The Astros went from $102MM in 2009, 8th highest in MLB.. to $22 goddamn million bucks in 2013. That's ridiculous.

As for the Cubs -

146MM 2010 payroll to $88MM in 2012 - they cut 60 million bucks and sucked worse than anyone. This is a team in a top 5 market with arguably a top 3 nationwide following. There's no reason to not have a top 5 payroll.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/2016-ch ... eo-epstein

Postby **willeyeam** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:47 am

I mean if your argument is the Cubs spend more than the Pirates - well, duh?

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:59 am

What's the argument here? That when the Cubs tank they draft/acquire good players and when the Pirates tank they draft **** players that don't develop and trade for meaningless prospects that achieve nothing? I'm all for tank and win. The Pirates still draft and develop like ****.
The argument is that the league/players is cool with the Cubs, Astros, Brewers, etc submarining payroll but when the Pirates do it it's cheap and grievances are filed.. What the Pirates make of tanking is a separate issue

The Pirates were over $100MM for a few years and dropped to 80ish at the moment.. The expectation would be that they'd get back to that level. No ones saying they're gonna spend $200MM anytime soon.

The Astros went from $102MM in 2009, 8th highest in MLB.. to $22 goddamn million bucks in 2013. That's ridiculous.

As for the Cubs -

146MM 2010 payroll to $88MM in 2012 - they cut 60 million bucks and sucked worse than anyone. This is a team in a top 5 market with arguably a top 3 nationwide following. There's no reason to not have a top 5 payroll.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/2016-ch ... eo-epstein

Yea except that's not the case at all. The MLBPA specifically filed their grievance over the improper use of revenue sharing funds. It's not over tanking. It's not about slashing payroll. It's about not spending revenue sharing funds “in an effort to improve its performance on the field.” Even in their tank years the Cubs were payors into the revenue sharing system and their payroll never dropped into the bottom half of the league. The Astros might have received some, but they signed their billion dollar TV deal during their string of down years so it's unlikely. With the 2012 CBA the Cubs and Astros were in the top half of MLB market size which meant they gradually lost their rights to revenue sharing funds anyways. The Astros have apparently become eligible again but it doesn't matter because they are definitely payors into the system now. The Astros undoubtedly cut their salary a **** ton and probably tested the temperament of the MLBPA, but again they were likely still paying into the revenue sharing system.

The Brewers are a different story as they are a smaller market and definitely receive market sharing, but other than last season their payroll has consistently been above the Pirates', has breached $100MM, has been in the top half of the league before, and they spent this offseason.

I don't know what the Pirates or Rays spend their revenue sharing money on, I imagine the A's are trying to pocket as much revenue sharing money as possible because their market size protection is gone and their access to those funds will soon be gone, and I know for a fact that the Marlins spend their revenue sharing money on things that are at best tangential related to baseball, but that's the issue. But again, it's not about tanking or payroll, it's about where the revenue sharing money is going.

Postby **willeyeam** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:01 am

fwiw Milwaukee's payroll is $85MM at the moment

Postby **willeyeam** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:09 am

that's what I'm saying. big teams can tank and it's not Bad for Baseball because they pay in. Teams with the actual ability to spend near $200MM on payroll slashing it like that is much more detrimental to the league than whatever the heck the Pirates are doing. In any case just go to a salary cap/floor

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:33 am

that's what I'm saying. big teams can tank and it's not Bad for Baseball because they pay in. Teams with the actual ability to spend near $200MM on payroll slashing it like that is much more detrimental to the league than whatever the heck the Pirates are doing. In any case just go to a salary cap/floor

Ok fine well then I agree with you.

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:41 am

Austin Meadows, the second batter Miguel Castro faced in the B game, elicited a “Jesus Christ” from the #Pirates dugout after an 0-2 home run to RF off Miguel Castro. #Orioles

https://twitter.com/JonMeoli/status/969 ... twterm%5E3

Postby **MrKennethTKangaroo** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:52 am

What happened to the top 5 rated farm system in baseball? I know many of the guys graduated to the big leagues, but a few of those blue chippers also fell on hard times (Meadows, Glasnow, Kingham). That's either a sign of bad luck, or bad development. I'd say a mix of both.

Baseball America named them the best farm system after the 2013 season (when they beat the reds in the wild card game). The baseball America top 10 as of November 2013 was:

1. Gregory Polanco, of
2. Jameson Taillon, rhp
3. Tyler Glasnow, rhp
4. Austin Meadows, of
5. Nick Kingham, rhp
6. Alen Hanson, ss
7. Josh Bell, of
8. Reese McGuire, c
9. Harold Ramirez, of
10. Luis Heredia, rhp

We all are well aware of the polanco/snider comparisons. keep in mind snider was rated number 6 in all of baseball in 2008.

Taillon has stalled due to forseen injuries (arm related) and unforeseen injuries (cancer related).

Glasnow...don't hold your breat

Meadows...see taillon

Kingham...see taillon

Hanson couldn't and never will hit his way out of a paper bag. Although adam frazier, who was drafted in 2013, is pretty much delivering on hanson's promise.

Josh bell...good.

Reese mcgurie...bad

Harold Ramirez...too little, out of the organization

Luis Heredia...too big, out of the organization. Still throws heat though.

Of those 10 guys, really bell and polanco were the only guys that arrived in the majors on a timely basis. And even though polanco arrived on time, he didn't deliver the goods when he arrived.

Postby **Morkle** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:17 pm

that's what I'm saying. big teams can tank and it's not Bad for Baseball because they pay in. Teams with the actual ability to spend near $200MM on payroll slashing it like that is much more detrimental to the league than whatever the heck the Pirates are doing. In any case just go to a salary cap/floor
Ok fine well then I agree with you.

I agree with willy. I was merely saying that I can see why MLBPA would get frustrated with teams that have a continual low payroll versus the ones that don't. The rebound is greater, and the downtime appears to be smaller.

Postby **willeyeam** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:41 pm

well of course they'd be happier with the teams that spend more money on them

Postby **Morkle** » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:58 pm

well of course they'd be happier with the teams that spend more money on them

Which is why this entire MLBPA grievance is stupid and nothing will come of it. It's been this way for at least two decades now and I can't even compare it to the Cubs - because the MLBPA knows they're eventually going to spend $200MM again.

Postby **columbia** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Is Bill Brink worth a follow? The hockey writers in Pittsburgh are so terrible, that I’ve become suspicious of everyone.

Postby **columbia** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:04 pm

Dave Molinari was our last hope for adult hockey coverage, it seems.

Postby **DigitalGypsy66** » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:06 pm

Brink and Berry are seemingly normal Twitter personalities. Biertempfel was the only wacko when it came to Pirates beat writers, and was fine compared to the Pens writers, unless you mentioned UPS or #JoeKnew.

Postby **columbia** » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:33 pm

Brink seems on point and not wanting to be a celebrity, so a keeper in my feed.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:54 pm

Classic Glasnow performance today. 2.2 IP, 6 hits, 7 runs, 6 ERs, 3 BBs, 5 Ks, a HR, and a wild pitch. Things started going sideways and the kid just completely lost it once again. He was either working on a very ineffective changeup or his fastball velocity was dipping down into the low 90s. Regardless of what it was the Jays were teeing off on it.

Postby **willeyeam** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:02 pm

Championship

Postby **Troy Loney** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:05 pm

This is bad news, if Glasnow can't nail down a job in the Pirates bullpen this year, he might be playing himself out of the organization (by running out of options)

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:08 pm

Yea I have no idea what the hell theyre going to do with him. His first two ST appearances were okayish but trusting him to come into a game for an inning is terrifying to me. I don’t trust him because he doesn’t trust himsel.

Postby **shafnutz05** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:23 am

One of the Trib commenters called Glasnow "James MacDonald 2.0"

That's some creative association there.

Postby **columbia** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:14 pm

Postby **Freddy Rumsen** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm

MartePartay

Postby **willeyeam** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:16 pm

MartePartay

That's actually Manny Sanguillen

Postby **Ad@m** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:22 pm

MartePartay
That's actually Manny Sanguillen

Marte hit a HR today

Postby **Troy Loney** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:57 am

@Dickie Dunn

If you were wondering what would make me finally turn on the Pirates' management. It is Coonelly at a Saccone event where KA Conway is the guest of honor, and him bringing the Pirate Parrot along.

**** this team. Ron Burkle is a big democratic supporter, can you even imagine the Pens using their brand for political purposes?