2018 Pittsburgh Pirates In-Season Thread

[Dickie Dunn]

May 31st - Diaz takes over as starting catcher. Over/Under

Due to performance or injury?

[willeyeam]

Vegas doesn't ask why

[Troy Loney]

May 31st - Diaz takes over as starting catcher. Over/Under

Over. I think Cervelli will be healthier this year.

[Morkle]

i mean they've played 4 games

I was just wondering, I get updates and I can't recall if I've seen a win yet or not. It also doesn't matter - it's Spring training, no idea if there's even standouts.

Polanco had that one game, but it seems to be a matter of time before he gets a PED violation.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Meadows is going to go gangbusters all Spring and then break his ankle walking to the plane.

[Dickie Dunn]

Buccos with the big 4-1 victory today. Meadows had a two run jack, SRod with a solo. Kingham had a capable start and I guess everyone looked good in relief.

[Troy Loney]

I think there's a pretty strong chance that Feliz becomes the most valuable piece from the Cole trade.

[willeyeam]

Forgot all about Kingham. Would be a good story if he could get back to the track he was on

[Freddy Rumsen]

That's why I'm glad the Pirates didn't sign a pitcher. They have so many of thess guys that need a shot.

[willeyeam]

would rather they sign someone and then make Kingham/Glasnow/Brault/Kuhl/whoever force their way in

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

would rather they sign someone and then make Kingham/Glasnow/Brault/Kuhl/whoever force their way in

That is what the penguins do. Sign vets and make young guns prove themselves

[shafnutz05]

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post ... nt-winning

I’m not going to defend the frugality of Nutting or Stuart Sternberg, although some reports haven’t been completely fair. One of the major criticisms of the Pirates is they didn’t add enough in-season pieces during their playoff runs. That ignores the 2015 team that won 98 games and added J.A. Happ, Joakim Soria, Aramis Ramirez and Joe Blanton at the trade deadline. Unfortunately, that team still fell two games short of the division title and lost to a red-hot Jake Arrieta in the wild-card game. Reports have indicated the Rays have cut their payroll from $100 million in 2017 to $73 million. As Sternberg pointed out when he met with reporters Tuesday, Tampa Bay’s estimated Opening Day payroll will be higher than last year’s ($70 million).

The bigger issue is that both teams have done a lousy job lately of producing major league talent. According to thebaseballgauge.com, the Pirates produced the least amount of talent in the major leagues in 2017: Just 12.3 WAR came from players originally signed or drafted by the Pirates. (The Cubs led the majors with 58.1 WAR.) That disparity explains the 17-win difference between the Cubs and Pirates a lot more than Nutting’s unwillingness to increase the club’s payroll. It’s a minor miracle the Pirates won 75 games with so little homegrown talent.

This is painful to read.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

did they mention that the cubs best god damn player is kris Bryant

how did they acquire kris Bryant

by drafting him after they tanked


.....

[willeyeam]

it's okay when the Cubs, Astros and Brewers tank

[willeyeam]

can we fix the gd quotes yet

[Morkle]

@kicksave fell off the reservation.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

hey @willeyeam when did the cubs acquire Anthony effing rizzo

[willeyeam]

hey @willeyeam when did the cubs acquire Anthony effing rizzo

well they traded basically nothing for him, so not sure that's apples to apples. but it was 2012, the year they went 61-101

[Dickie Dunn]

What's the argument here? That when the Cubs tank they draft/acquire good players and when the Pirates tank they draft **** players that don't develop and trade for meaningless prospects that achieve nothing? I'm all for tank and win. The Pirates still draft and develop like ****.

[robbiestoupe]

The Pirates had their chances to draft at the top. They either suck at drafting, or hit gold with drafting and become allergic to gold because it costs too much.

What happened to the top 5 rated farm system in baseball? I know many of the guys graduated to the big leagues, but a few of those blue chippers also fell on hard times (Meadows, Glasnow, Kingham). That's either a sign of bad luck, or bad development. I'd say a mix of both.

There was a period between 2010 and 2014 where the scouts/development coaches were the best in the business, then suddenly left/fell off a cliff. It's obvious that the past 3-4 years of draft classes haven't been all that. Is it poor scouting or poor development?

The Cubs and Astros have hit on all cylinders. Good drafting/scouting, good luck and good development. Teams like the Cardinals and Red Sox seem to always develop well, no matter where they are in the draft. Even though tanking has helped teams like the Cubs and Astros, it's certainly not the only way to get things done.

[willeyeam]

What's the argument here? That when the Cubs tank they draft/acquire good players and when the Pirates tank they draft **** players that don't develop and trade for meaningless prospects that achieve nothing? I'm all for tank and win. The Pirates still draft and develop like ****.

The argument is that the league/players is cool with the Cubs, Astros, Brewers, etc submarining payroll but when the Pirates do it it's cheap and grievances are filed.. What the Pirates make of tanking is a separate issue

[DigitalGypsy66]

Evidently, MLBPA chief Tony Clark had some "unprintable" words about what the Pirates did with spending/signing after the 98 win season.

[Morkle]

What's the argument here? That when the Cubs tank they draft/acquire good players and when the Pirates tank they draft **** players that don't develop and trade for meaningless prospects that achieve nothing? I'm all for tank and win. The Pirates still draft and develop like ****.

The argument is that the league/players is cool with the Cubs, Astros, Brewers, etc submarining payroll but when the Pirates do it it's cheap and grievances are filed.. What the Pirates make of tanking is a separate issue

It's almost apples to oranges though...right? These teams have shown the ability to spend money when it matters, so I think while the common-stance that tanking is done to acquire good talent through the draft, the belief is that the money will come back.

The Cubs example is kind of stupid considering they're always in consideration for spending major money at positions. If they went cheap for ten years, then I see an argument, but have they really done that?

The Astros most recently have been spending a lot of money on their roster.

The Pirates haven't spent near the money most if any of these teams do. I guess that's where I see the difference. We're always willing to say "OH it's ok when these teams tank but not the Pirates," a majority of teams spend money to make their teams better to compete. The Pirates if that's the case are perpetually tanking?

[Morkle]

That year the Cubs went 61-whatever in 2012 they had a salary of $121m.

2012 - 61 wins - $121m
2013 - 66 wins - $112m
2014 - No idea - $92m
2015 - no idea - $138m
2016 - no idea - $188m

so one year under 100m salary.

[Morkle]

In that same span for the Pirate -

2012 - $62m
2013 - $77m
2014 - $76m
2015 - $105m
2016 - $105m
2017 - $109m
2017 - $77m