2018 Steelers Thread

nocera
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby nocera » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:44 am

For all the flak Ben gets about playing or not playing. It seemingly feels like the defense was so bad they get a pass. Ben came in and drove down the field to score. He didn't give the lead up when it mattered most.
Right. But what I don't get is if he was cleared when he came out of the locker room in the second half, why didn't he play immediately? It's not insane to think Ben could have turned a few of those drives into points. Instead he stood there while Dobbs and crew squandered two or three series before the Raiders eventually took the lead.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:47 am

Fisher was known turd, versus practically no fan base outside the Steelers think Tomlin is an underachiever.

I'm just saying would you be happy with the playoffs every year and hoping to get on a run, which is what Tomlin gives you.
Because the wrong coaching hire eliminates one of Ben's three seasons he probably has left, and there's nobody in the wings for year four.

I think there's two options:
1) Do what tif says and maintain QB and HC continuity and hope they play their best football when they need to, let them retire together.
2) Blow the thing up, tank a year and hope to grab a good QB and match him with an offensive HC coach that schemes to the kids talents.
As opposed to the last 5 years they've underachieved? There have been critical missteps in game planning and preparation that have cost this team entire seasons. There has been bad 1-3 round draft picks that haven't progressed this team fast enough. Right now, this is a mediocre team without Ben. They're another good team w/him and right now, even that's debatable.

Like the Pens, you're either grading this team on championships won, or you start working to build that formula again.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:47 am


nocera
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby nocera » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:49 am

Dobbs was never in the rhythm and flow of the game. Ben sat out because the coaches thought it was still an easy win and they could rest Ben for New Orleans.

tifosi77
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby tifosi77 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:51 am

If by "sucking for a couple seasons" you all mean "likely for ten or more years" then okay. Just manage your expectations.

It was 21 years between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger. In that span, there were a total of maybe five or six truly good seasons, all backloaded to the years following Cowher's arrival. Years with O'Dummy that included two AFC Championship games and a Superb Owl loss, and Slash took the team to a couple conference 'chip games, nine total playoff wins (only one year with more than one) in 21 years. In all likelihood, that's what the team is facing post-Ben/Tomlin, whether that timeline starts this year after firing the coach and asking the team's future-HOF QB to just hit the rest button for the last couple years of his career, or wait til after 2-3 more years of peaky performances where they look all-world four or five games a year, and for another four or five they look like the Bad News Bears of pro football. Either way, fans need to prepare for what might end up being a very long and uncomfortable ride.

Favre-to-Rogers, Montana-to-Young, Manning-to-Luck are the exceptions. Bradshaw--------to----------eventually Roethlisberger is much more common. They still haven't found a top-ten replacement for Marino in Miami, or Young in SF (while I rate him, the jury is still out on Jimmy G).

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby meow » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:58 am

This team is mediocre right now. It won't get better before Ben retires.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:00 am

If by "sucking for a couple seasons" you all mean "likely for ten or more years" then okay. Just manage your expectations.

It was 21 years between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger. In that span, there were a total of maybe five or six truly good seasons, all backloaded to the years following Cowher's arrival. Years with O'Dummy that included two AFC Championship games and a Superb Owl loss, and Slash took the team to a couple conference 'chip games, nine total playoff wins (only one year with more than one) in 21 years. In all likelihood, that's what the team is facing post-Ben/Tomlin, whether that timeline starts this year after firing the coach and asking the team's future-HOF QB to just hit the rest button for the last couple years of his career, or wait til after 2-3 more years of peaky performances where they look all-world four or five games a year, and for another four or five they look like the Bad News Bears of pro football. Either way, fans need to prepare for what might end up being a very long and uncomfortable ride.

Favre-to-Rogers, Montana-to-Young, Manning-to-Luck are the exceptions. Bradshaw--------to----------eventually Roethlisberger is much more common. They still haven't found a top-ten replacement for Marino in Miami, or Young in SF (while I rate him, the jury is still out on Jimmy G).
Eh - I would say it's likely somewhere in the 5-7 range. I don't look at the past to place narratives on the future. If they hire another good coach and actually draft well. They're set. If they don't, then yea - 10 or more.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby dodint » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:00 am

Watching Gruden run around and celebrate his third win of the season like he won the Super Bowl is enough to make me want to fire Tomlin into the sun.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby slappybrown » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:12 am

I don't even thinking losing out and finishing 7-8-1 with no playoffs (which seems to be a real possibility) would get him canned. The whole "Steelers Way" stuff is just marketing for the most part, but firing Tomlin would be a radical departure from the way they've done business for 50 years. I don't see it.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 am

I don't even thinking losing out and finishing 7-8-1 with no playoffs (which seems to be a real possibility) would get him canned. The whole "Steelers Way" stuff is just marketing for the most part, but firing Tomlin would be a radical departure from the way they've done business for 50 years. I don't see it.
My feelings on it. I think at most they have a conversation and move on. I think tif is right that Tomlin "retires" after Ben retires.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby slappybrown » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:24 am

Yea, I could see them wanting to discuss changes -- obvious one is the DC, since we know the OC isn't in peril -- but beyond that, doubt much.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:36 am

I think you absolutely have to cut the DC, and whoever is scouting DBs.

Pavel Bure
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Pavel Bure » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:42 am

Trade for Derek Carr.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:43 am

And who is coaching the DBs.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Nittany Ned » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:47 am

And who is coaching the DBs.
Scrap - but he's literally working with scrap. Carnell Lake was the fall guy before too. These guys are hopeless. Burns, Davis, Edmonds, Sensabaugh, Burnett - all awful. Haden, Hilton - good, but not good enough to make up for how awful the other guys are.

Horrible talent evaluation in the defensive backfield. A unit with zero ball skills. On the long pass Carr completed on the last drive when we pretty much all realized "oh ****, they're gonna lose", Burnett literally jumped in the air after the Oakland player caught the pass. Unbelievable.

Last INT by the Steelers was Week 8. QB's have attempted 203 passes in that span. QBs such as Case Keenum and Blake Bortles.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby meow » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:53 am

who the f is Scrap

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:55 am

I understand they get to the QB at all costs to force long downs strategy. What I don't understand is that they've invested marginal money to the DBs, so when teams inevitably stuff that strategy(read: the good teams), they're torched all over the field. We've been dealing with trying to cover a TE for 3-5 years now. It's the same story year after year, and they seemingly refuse to try a new strategy for it.

I don't know, whoever is scouting and drafting these guys are garbage. Id' rather they just spend that $14 million on two solid DBs to help the front unit.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:59 am

I cant believe ned is apologizing for a former penn state coach

Nittany Ned
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Nittany Ned » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:29 pm

I understand they get to the QB at all costs to force long downs strategy. What I don't understand is that they've invested marginal money to the DBs, so when teams inevitably stuff that strategy(read: the good teams), they're torched all over the field. We've been dealing with trying to cover a TE for 3-5 years now. It's the same story year after year, and they seemingly refuse to try a new strategy for it.

I don't know, whoever is scouting and drafting these guys are garbage. Id' rather they just spend that $14 million on two solid DBs to help the front unit.
Tom Bradley is Scrap. Not that he's TOTALLY without fault, but yes - the scouting and drafting has been the bigger issue.

Saw this tweet last night. When Steelers fans were griping about how jealous they are of the Bears' D/secondary:

You get what you pay for:

Kyle Fuller, $20m
Prince Amukamara, $9.5m
Combined 8 INTs

Joe Haden, $7m
Coty Sensabaugh, $1.2m
Combined 1 INT

Morkle
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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Morkle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:30 pm

Exactly. I guess I'm for having a much better secondary than we have, and I wish the team would prioritize it more than getting an older Haden.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:36 pm

How much does the secondary matter when you're using LJ **** Fort to cover WRs? Colbert is not without blame in this moronic season, bad/no signings, bad drafting, etc. and the belief that Bell was going to show up and play under another franchise tag, despite saying he wouldn't, played a major role in the lack of upgrades to the defense.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby tifosi77 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:05 pm

It was bad enough to gameplan against LAC to use LBs to cover a WR who ended up having a career day against that scheme. But to come back the very next week with the same coverage is just.... I don't even know what to call it. Stupid doesn't seem to do it justice, but I'm not prepared to characterize it as deliberate malfeasance.

Also, when it's time for Tomlin to go, I think he'll be given the opportunity to 'resign'/'voluntarily step down' rather than have a dismissal be on his record. He has largely done right by the Steelers during his time here, and for all his faults there are not more than maybe four or five other head coaches in the NFL I'd straight up want instead of him.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby Pavel Bure » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:13 pm

It was bad enough to gameplan against LAC to use LBs to cover a WR who ended up having a career day against that scheme. But to come back the very next week with the same coverage is just.... I don't even know what to call it. Stupid doesn't seem to do it justice, but I'm not prepared to characterize it as deliberate malfeasance.

Also, when it's time for Tomlin to go, I think he'll be given the opportunity to 'resign'/'voluntarily step down' rather than have a dismissal be on his record. He has largely done right by the Steelers during his time here, and for all his faults there are not more than maybe four or five other head coaches in the NFL I'd straight up want instead of him.
Stockholm syndrome.


Kidding. Mike McCarthy? Bring back the hometown guy?

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:25 pm

I agree with others that have stated that seeing them go 9-7 or 10-6 every season does nothing for me. This whole fan base has been so conditioned to believe in the STEELER WAY and long-term stability, but at what point does the status quo become unacceptable? You can set your fcking watch to this team playing down to their opponents, especially on the road.

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2018 Steelers Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:26 pm

I wonder if this year we're seeing the accrued effect of moving the PAT line back a few seasons ago. Established kickers are missing more and more kicks that are usually considered gimmes; Gostkowski had two yips yesterday.
Well yeah, I think that goes without saying. Kickers are missing more extra points, and it is definitely affecting their confidence on other kicks. Cody Parkey looks like the most terrified little boy I've ever seen at that position.

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