2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

[NailedPenguin]

Many such cases!

[Troy Loney]

Mostly around getting toxic personalities out of the clubhouse.

[willeyeam]

McCutchen and Cole weren't particularly subtle in their displeasure with the front office. I think a pretty strong case could be made that this 2018 version of the team is better than if they had kept those two (and obviously not added anything).

I think the Cutch removal is a net zero at worst on paper. Obviously there's more to the game than that so I think it's going to hurt the team.

There is no case to be made that Cole leaving helps the team.

[Morkle]

I would love to see a salary floor/salary cap. I don't think it ever happens.

[slappybrown]

Mostly around getting toxic personalities out of the clubhouse.

oh come on. This isn't Tom Barrasso or Jason Kendall and the "Welcome to Hell" years. No one ever suggested to my knowledge that Cole or Cutch were "toxic" or that they were holding the team back with their attitudes. I know Cutch could pout at times, and didn't want to move from CF, etc etc, but thats a far cry from "toxic."

[Troy Loney]

Well, their shitty 2016's brought that team down, so I don't think it's the most irrational take to think that a checked out McCutchen and Cole would be bad for business.

[NailedPenguin]

TIL athletes don't just have bad years

[Troy Loney]

Ok, i'm glad you have the capacity to learn things. It doesn't show in other threads.

[slappybrown]

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

TIL athletes don't just have bad years

Or 1 excellent year sandwiched between pretty good years. Which is exactly how you could describe Gerrit Cole's career to date.

[Troy Loney]

I think there's a good chance that the difference in value from adding Moran to be the primary 3B is greater than the dip in value from Cole to Musgrove and the addition of Feliz to the bullpen.

So we can also learn today that the Pirate roster had a number of needs, so swapping Cole and his 3 WAR to boost productivity from in the bullpen and the left side of the infield could be better for the entire team. And McCutchen would be a wash with moving Marte to center and if Meadows emerges midseason.

[NailedPenguin]

Ok, i'm glad you have the capacity to learn things. It doesn't show in other threads.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

That evaluation is tipping a bit towards too optimistic Mr. Loney. imo a bird in the hand (having cutch and cole) is probably worth more than two in the bush (i.e. maybe getting better production out of 3b and having another guy that throws hard in the bullpen)

Also, this is also imo but at this point, guys like Feliz (i.e. guys that throw really hard) basically grow on trees and really aren't all that hard to find and really not all that costly to acquire.

[robbiestoupe]

bold prediction #1: Moran will not lead the team in WAR for 3rd basemen in 2018. It will belong to somebody that was on the roster prior to 2018.

[Troy Loney]

Well, none of these impacts happen in a vacuum, so it's hard to really provide further evidence.

I think that Cole is going to do very well in Houston. They have a better idea right now for how their starters should pitch. Searage seems lost since the Umps took the lower portion of the zone away, so pitching to contact was bad news for Cole (so many home runs).

I think the lineup as a whole is a mess since McCutchen's fall from elite to bad to then above average.

But yeah, my presumptions are based on unknowns and the hope that Moran is good enough to be a starting 3B.

[Troy Loney]

bold prediction #1: Moran will not lead the team in WAR for 3rd basemen in 2018. It will belong to somebody that was on the roster prior to 2018.

My greatest fear is that Hurdle finds a way to keep Freese and Rodriguez in the lineup every night.

[count2infinity]

https://twitter.com/stephenjnesbitt/sta ... 6636533760

[Troy Loney]

https://www.forbes.com/teams/pittsburgh-pirates/

Has there been anything on the accuracy of these Forbes estimates? I mean, I'm sure it's not hard for any finance writer to pull a valuation together with the publicly available information, but we don't know what the operating expenses are. It is odd that their value for the Pirates doubled from 2014 to 2015, that's a lot. So it does bring in to question the methodology. But if their revenue estimate is anywhere near accurate, it is comical that they refuse to boost payroll.

[Ad@m]

Petition over 47,000

https://www.change.org/p/mlb-for-mlb-to ... gh-pirates

[NailedPenguin]

Greg Brown embarrassing himself on Twitter tonight

[Morkle]

Greg Brown embarrassing himself on Twitter tonight

Oh it was embarrassingly bad.

@gbrowniepoints - Some #FakeNews out there. I happen to know Bob Nutting. He is as good a man as I have ever met. He is an excellent team owner who righted a sinking Pirates ship. He cares deeply about the organization & wants to bring a championship to Pgh. THAT is the truth.

@gbrowniepoints - Btw, Pirates have NEVER told me what or when to tweet.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

ha

[Freddy Rumsen]

I'm not sure what's embarrassing about either of those things. Those things can be true and Nutting still be a bad owner.

[Morkle]

"He is an excellent team owner who righted a sinking Pirates ship"....only to quickly let it sink again, but this time he's collecting a bigger check.

He cares deeply about the organization? Only enough to collect that said check.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

just not a good look