2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

[Freddy Rumsen]

What they need to hope for is packaging Harrison with Cervelli and get a serviceable catcher back and hope Frazier can learn to play 2B.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Minor League staffs announced.

Former catching prospect Wyatt Torregas and Joel Hanrahan on the WV Power staff (manager and pitching coach respectfully).

https://www.bucsdugout.com/2018/1/16/16 ... ing-staffs

[columbia]

The Pirates Could Have Been Contenders, but Ownership Cried Poverty and Betrayed Their Fans
http://amp.si.com/mlb/2018/01/16/pittsb ... ssion=true

[shafnutz05]

The Pirates Could Have Been Contenders, but Ownership Cried Poverty and Betrayed Their Fans
http://amp.si.com/mlb/2018/01/16/pittsb ... ssion=true

To do so little when given McCutchen, Cole and more is a baseball crime. The next step was within reach, but every time, the Pirates pulled up short, choosing instead to spend little or stick to the status quo. Contrast that to their fellow small-market also-rans, the Royals, who similarly turned a fecund farm system into surprise contention but also chose to go for it when they had the chance, landing Ben Zobrist and Johnny Cueto at the 2015 trade deadline, cost be damned. The result: the first World Series title in Kansas City in 30 years. Pittsburgh, sitting on its hands year after year, will enter 2018 on a 39-year title drought.

Pretty much.

[columbia]

Rosenthal has a nice (and very reasonable) take:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MLBONFOX/sta ... 9196086272

[willeyeam]

Obvi in hindsight, going for it all at the expense of the 2017-2019ish seasons would have been the correct move, but NH tried to walk the fine line of fielding a team capable of winning in 2013-2015 without selling the farm so they would never have to totally blow it up like the Marlins used to do. At the time I didn't hate it because 98 wins 3 years ago was pretty damn good. Just happened the best team in the majors was also in our division. The plan was obviously for Polanco to be better, Glasnow to turn out, Kang to not be a moron, etc and then we would have never had the big sell off imo. At the time I wasn't against the approach because they were really good, with some really good talent on the way and it looked like they'd be good for a while, just not really great. You could argue the playoffs are a crapshoot and you just have to give yourself as many chances at getting in as you can. Which was where it looked like we were headed. Alas it ended in one sad thud.

Tldr NH has one hard job due to ownership constraints and he came pretty darn close to pulling it off but it ended up being a huge waste.

[Dickie Dunn]

Just heard a soundbite from GMNH on Da Fan that about made me drive into a snow bank. Dude legit claimed they got three top 100 prospects for Cole. Also said he told Harrison that they’re not rebuilding because they have too much talent to be rebuilding. **** off Neal

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

The Pirates Could Have Been Contenders, but Ownership Cried Poverty and Betrayed Their Fans
http://amp.si.com/mlb/2018/01/16/pittsb ... ssion=true

To do so little when given McCutchen, Cole and more is a baseball crime. The next step was within reach, but every time, the Pirates pulled up short, choosing instead to spend little or stick to the status quo. Contrast that to their fellow small-market also-rans, the Royals, who similarly turned a fecund farm system into surprise contention but also chose to go for it when they had the chance, landing Ben Zobrist and Johnny Cueto at the 2015 trade deadline, cost be damned. The result: the first World Series title in Kansas City in 30 years. Pittsburgh, sitting on its hands year after year, will enter 2018 on a 39-year title drought.

Pretty much.

Of course, that article did not mention that cole got hurt multiple times and had a career high WHIP in 2016 and mccutchen fell off a cliff in terms of production

those two guys are not as culpable as management for the failures after 2016, but they are really, really close to being as culpable.

[Troy Loney]

Yeah, it's hard to talk about the closing of the window without mentioning how McCutchen and Cole went from MVP and Cy Young candidates in 2015 to averaging almost replacement level production in 2016 and 2017.

There are some articles on Fangraphs today that shows that they have realized that the return for Cole was actually pretty good. You're still going to have the Pittsburgh blogosphere pissed they didn't get top 100 prospects and Baseball America demanding retribution for the Pirates not targeting players on their list.

I don't think there's much of an argument against the McCutchen trade being a salary dump. I think the one guy looks like a decent prospect, but more of a high floor guy and Crick is a post-hype prospect they took a flyer on. I think it might also have been necessary to move McCutchen off a rebuilding team. One they can give those at bats to younger guys and two, he seems to have developed some bad attitude traits that aren't good to have around.

[Morkle]

Just heard a soundbite from GMNH on Da Fan that about made me drive into a snow bank. Dude legit claimed they got three top 100 prospects for Cole. Also said he told Harrison that they’re not rebuilding because they have too much talent to be rebuilding. **** off Neal

I caught that too flipping through the stations. I still content that they lobbed him softball questions and didn't pressure on anything. Like flat-out asking him if they were going to honor his trade request instead of just agreeing and humming along to the we're not rebuilding bit.

[Troy Loney]

I'm sure the Pirates would love nothing more than to honor his trade request. Problem being, that someone has to be willing to take him at that salary.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

$10 million isn't unreasonable for a guy of Harrison's caliber

[Morkle]

It's not unreasonable, and they literally went through a salary dump where they even decided to pay 2.5 million of his salary.

[Troy Loney]

$10 million isn't unreasonable for a guy of Harrison's caliber

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018-mlb ... irection-1

Seems like a team could just pluck a comparable player from the FA market for less money and no return considerations.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

$10 million isn't unreasonable for a guy of Harrison's caliber

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018-mlb ... irection-1

Seems like a team could just pluck a comparable player from the FA market for less money and no return considerations.

Touche. I wonder if teams are going to wait and see what happens with Phillips and Walker before making a choice to pursue jhay. IMO jhay is the most valuable of those three.

[columbia]

Mets fans at dying to get Harrison to play at 2B.

[willeyeam]

Mets fans at dying to get Harrison to play at 2B.

I would too after watching Neil Walker try and play 2B. Wait..

[columbia]

Cole presser in Houston

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 05430&_rdr


He seems like a bit of a baby, but will miss him anyway.

[Troy Loney]

Yeah, seems like Cole had bought into full McCutchen accountability mode. "team stunk because they didn't sign guys, not because we stunk".

[columbia]

Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Hearing the Mets aren't particularly enthusiastic about trading Nimmo for Harrison; Mets believe the asking price should be less given Harrison's contract.

I do know that the Pirates wanted Nimmo in a Cutch package.

[Troy Loney]

Jeff Passan over at Yahoo has been doing some good reporting on the MLB offseason.

Essentially the problem is that so few teams are committed to competing in 2018 that there is barely any demand for current free agents. The players and agents are voicing displeasure at the arbitration process and ignoring the real culprit - lack of a salary floor.

Just pull your heads out of your ass, agree to a salary cap and create some sort of restricted free agency, or shorter arbitration process.

[MR25]

https://twitter.com/adamdberry/status/9 ... 2943344640

Brain dead and tone deaf

[iamjs]

Cole presser in Houston

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 05430&_rdr


He seems like a bit of a baby, but will miss him anyway.

Not that I don't agree with him, but there's different ways of going about it.

That said, the more I hear that soundbite, the more he sounds like a whiner who has no idea of HOU's recent history pre-WS victory.

[Troy Loney]

McCutchen and Cole weren't particularly subtle in their displeasure with the front office. I think a pretty strong case could be made that this 2018 version of the team is better than if they had kept those two (and obviously not added anything).

[Beveridge]

I would LOVE for that case to be made that removing McCutchen and Cole make this team better.