2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

[Dickie Dunn]

Glasnow turning it around would be huge. If he becomes the dominant pitcher everyone expected (hoped) for, when the Pirates decide to blow it all up again in 5ish years they'll probably be able to get a prospect that projects as an organizational depth player from a team with a lowly farm system plus a reliever or two.

[Troy Loney]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... ores.shtml

Very few teams have the kind of run the Pirates had from 2013-2015. 2016 would have been another playoff year, had McCutchen and Cole showed up and Cervelli and Polanco stayed healthy. While it sucks they never made much of a postseason run, the organization has a lot of depth, and if they can time their complete tank season well and add an impact bat, they will be back in contention.

[Dickie Dunn]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... ores.shtml

Very few teams have the kind of run the Pirates had from 2013-2015. 2016 would have been another playoff year, had McCutchen and Cole showed up and Cervelli and Polanco stayed healthy. While it sucks they never made much of a postseason run, the organization has a lot of depth, and if they can time their complete tank season well and add an impact bat, they will be back in contention.

I don't disagree. My concern for this season (and really next season as well) is their apparent lack of commitment to just taking their lumps for the next season or two and getting guys the experience they need to return to the 2013-15 form around 2020. I don't trust Hurdle to play younglings over veterans and I don't trust GMNH to embrace the tank until he finds another way to save more money.

[iamjs]

Former Bucco terrible pitcher Esteban Loiza arrested last Friday in San Diego with 20 kilos of cocaine and/or heroin.

he would have fit in just fine with the '80s Pirates.

[Troy Loney]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... ores.shtml

Very few teams have the kind of run the Pirates had from 2013-2015. 2016 would have been another playoff year, had McCutchen and Cole showed up and Cervelli and Polanco stayed healthy. While it sucks they never made much of a postseason run, the organization has a lot of depth, and if they can time their complete tank season well and add an impact bat, they will be back in contention.

I don't disagree. My concern for this season (and really next season as well) is their apparent lack of commitment to just taking their lumps for the next season or two and getting guys the experience they need to return to the 2013-15 form around 2020. I don't trust Hurdle to play younglings over veterans and I don't trust GMNH to embrace the tank until he finds another way to save more money.

I'm not sure if I'm really going to be able to muster much angst at Hurdle if he does things like play Nava over Frazier, Freese over Moran, etc. I don't know if guys like Luplow and Moroff need MLB at bats to prove anything. I'm sort of the opinion that if these guys have it, we'll know, cause the team probably knows it.

I think they're really just an impact guy away from turning back into a playoff team. But not sure how they are going to be able to get that guy.

[willeyeam]

the thing that is irritating me is that the roster isn't terrible as is. all the nutting iz cheap talk was annoying the past few years because realistically, the Pirates at a 110MM payroll is about as good as it can get.. so now we're at a 72MM payroll with a roster that isn't half bad, 40 mil to spend theoretically and nothing is being done. That is Nutting being cheap.

On the other hand, I sorta get it.. with the Cubs, Cards and the new-look Brewers, the Pirates would get spanked with 40 mil of additions anyway so why spend it

[columbia]

The rub being an unwillingness to “over spend” when it might matter; whether that’s money or prospects.

It’s not ever going to change, so trying to be neutral about it all. I’m not there yet.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

I'm a bit surprised that the loney and the ulfster are both bullish on the talent on the roster. perhaps I'm undervaluing moran and the starting pitching depth, but I don't see signs of a contender on the roster as constructed.

[willeyeam]

I'm a bit surprised that the loney and the ulfster are both bullish on the talent on the roster. perhaps I'm undervaluing moran and the starting pitching depth, but I don't see signs of a contender on the roster as constructed.

i didn't say it was a contender by any means

[willeyeam]

if they were in last year's NL central, I'd say 75 wins with the roster as is.. 40 million to spend and you have a shot. This year, they'll get shellacked either way

[Troy Loney]

the thing that is irritating me is that the roster isn't terrible as is. all the nutting iz cheap talk was annoying the past few years because realistically, the Pirates at a 110MM payroll is about as good as it can get.. so now we're at a 72MM payroll with a roster that isn't half bad, 40 mil to spend theoretically and nothing is being done. That is Nutting being cheap.

On the other hand, I sorta get it.. with the Cubs, Cards and the new-look Brewers, the Pirates would get spanked with 40 mil of additions anyway so why spend it

I assume that they made the calculation that the core wasn't worth investing in. At the beginning of 2016 when Polanco and Cervelli started so strong they doled out the cash to lock them up, only to then be disappointed, not only in those two over the course of 2016, but also in Marte, Kang, Cole and McCutchen.

Guess they just have to hope there's a prospect wave somewhere, but I think the thing about a prospect wave, is that if you get that one guy that anchors the lineup, it makes those around him better and boosts the value and production of other guys.

[Morkle]

I see like a 70 win team at best. When do we lock in our official predictions?

[columbia]

I see like a 70 win team at best. When do we lock in our official predictions?

Now....

68-94

[willeyeam]

can't really predict much until we see how many of the remaining FAs get signed by the Cubs and Cards

[Morkle]

Actually, we should create a new season thread. Pitchers and catchers reported, starting with predictions.

[columbia]

can't really predict much until we see how many of the remaining FAs get signed by the Cubs and Cards

Cards have a line on Shoeless Joe Jackson....

[Morkle]

I mean it's a prediction - the Pirates aren't getting any big name FAs so presumably, this is the line-up they go with minus Harrison at some point. I don't see how it isn't anything but a rough year as most players have to exceed expectations to be really good, right?

[Troy Loney]

If Cervelli and Polanco are healthy and productive, I think the team can surprise a lot of people. If Feliz is another one of their reliever reclamation projects, the bullpen has the chance to be very good, the rotation is solid, but unspectacular. Problem being, in an offense first game right now, there are too many blatant question marks penned into the opening day lineup.

[willeyeam]

I mean it's a prediction - the Pirates aren't getting any big name FAs so presumably, this is the line-up they go with minus Harrison at some point. I don't see how it isn't anything but a rough year as most players have to exceed expectations to be really good, right?

While they aren't signing Arrieta or anything I'd be shocked if this is the lineup they go into opening day with.. I think as is, 72 wins, but we have a month and a half to go

[Freddy Rumsen]

I bet they sign a legit LF guy near the end of ST like they did with Freese a couple years ago.