2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Troy Loney
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:55 am

There are a couple of interesting stop gap options at SS that would cost about the same as Mercer and provide some more upside (either offensively or defensively), like JJ Hardy or A. Escobar. Mercer's ceiling is league average, so they might find that an easy upgrade. Then maybe non-tender and try to bring him back as a backup.

I think Kramer can be the 2B of the future and Tucker the SS, I don't think Newman will hold up at all against MLB pitching.

Morkle
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Morkle » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:01 am

This may be the year where I decide to only support the team by looking at stats the days after games. If they trot out a comparable roster to last year, which I expect, I can't say I'll have any faith/respect for the team anymore.

I'm already tired of hearing about potential comparisons to Houston/Pirates - Houston went/has gone all out when they thought their window was open.

Troy Loney
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 am

This may be the year where I decide to only support the team by looking at stats the days after games. If they trot out a comparable roster to last year, which I expect, I can't say I'll have any faith/respect for the team anymore.

I'm already tired of hearing about potential comparisons to Houston/Pirates - Houston went/has gone all out when they thought their window was open.
Wow, I hope no one is comparing the Pirates to Houston, they got a much better return in their rebuilding (tanking) efforts from the draft: Springer, Correia & Bregman.

Morkle
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Morkle » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:10 am

lol don't listen to the Fan then. That's all they talked about this morning.

Mostly the comparisons came with some grating, Pirates high draft picks never turn out.

LITT
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby LITT » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:18 am

this thread should be retitled self loathing yinzers

dont know why you folks do this to yourselves

Morkle
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Morkle » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:19 am

Oh I'm more than a foot out the door at this point. I'm just tired of hearing everyone within media/Pirates kick the can down the road. When they dump Cole this year, and speak about the future, I'll be absolutely checked out (even though it's likely the right thing to do).

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:20 am

Does KtK believe that they will bolster their roster, such that a WC is possible?
No.

columbia
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:52 am

this thread should be retitled self loathing yinzers

dont know why you folks do this to yourselves

You'll note the crossover with Pitt fans.

Viva la Ben
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Viva la Ben » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:52 am

Now watch Jeff Locke win a World Series next year

columbia
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:54 am

re:dumping Cole

I wouldn't do that. If they're out of it in July 2019, then sure.
Unless you are intimidating that they won't meet his contract demands after this season.

Troy Loney
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:02 am

re:dumping Cole

I wouldn't do that. If they're out of it in July 2019, then sure.
Unless you are intimidating that they won't meet his contract demands after this season.
They have Cole through 2019. They won't meet his contract demands because he's likely making demands he knows they wont match because he's intent on hitting the open market.

I think they have to roll the dice on this crop and do their best to win a title in 2018 or 2019. Cole is the only piece that would bring a huge return, but it wouldn't be the sort of franchise altering return that the White Sox got for Sale. They couldn't even get a top prospect in Robles for McCutchen last year, so why sell him for marginal parts at this point?

I think they should do their best to not take on non-moveable contracts. Try to supplement the current group with players that will help the next two years, and pray that integral pieces like Polanco, Bell and Taillon take steps forward.

DigitalGypsy66
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:08 am

Jung Ho Kang is batting .130 (6-for-46) in 13 games in the Dominican Winter League. One home run and 7 RBI with 18 Ks.
https://twitter.com/LLysowski/status/926100864376410112

Dickie Dunn
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:46 am

In comparison, the great Edwin Espinal (who is on Kang's team) is batting 375/474/469/942 in 32 ABs over 10 games. One home run, 6 RBIs, 6 BB, and 1 K.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:58 am

39% strikeout rate. Nice.

slappybrown
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby slappybrown » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:07 pm

prior polanco v. snider comparisons that made me sad
*checks baseball ref*


Similar Batters to Gregory Polanco through Age 25

Ken Henderson (974.0)
Willie Montanez (972.3)
Gary Geiger (971.1)
Junior Felix (970.0)
Jose Guillen (967.2)
Gary Thomasson (965.4)
Oddibe McDowell (964.4)
Willie Crawford (963.6)
Charlie Spikes (961.1)
Jeremy Hermida (959.9)

ugh

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:53 pm

I may have posted this in the old thread, but I couldn't find it. A nugget of hope for Polanco:

Polanco: 494 games, 1962 PA, 252/315/401/717 49 home runs.
Jose Bautista through age 28 (His first year in Toronto): 575 games, 2038 PA 238/329/400/729 59 home runs.

Since then: 255/376/519/892 3972 at bats 272 home runs

Polanco is heading into his age 26 season. SO YOU'RE SAYING THERES A CHANCE

Dickie Dunn
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:15 pm

So what you're saying is once Polanco leaves the Pirates he won't suck anymore?

columbia
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby columbia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:22 pm

Interesting similar players for Marte...
Christian Yelich (960.3)
Lorenzo Cain (942.5)
Danny Taylor (940.8)
Felix Jose (937.6)
Dick Wakefield (935.2)
Hank Edwards (935.1)
Jimmy Welsh (935.0)
Dave Robertson (932.3)
Roy Weatherly (928.5)
Alex Ochoa (927.6)

Dickie Dunn
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:30 am

Entire coaching staff has been given two year extensions, which is good news given results like this:
finished 28th in the majors in runs, 29th in slugging, 28th in OPS, 29th in OPS+ and 29th in HRs

DigitalGypsy66
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 am

And Bannister still won't get his hitters to change their swing angles to launch more flyballs. Ugh, like Bylsmagic 2.0.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 am

at least the baserunning was good? :slug:

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:34 am

And Bannister still won't get his hitters to change their swing angles to launch more flyballs. Ugh, like Bylsmagic 2.0.
this is something that they need to consider, but it is not a once size fits all fix. I wouldn't f with the following swings: Jhay, Josh bell (never in a million years), adam frazier. I would consider tweaking marte's swing and having a conversation with mccutchen about changing his launch angle. diaz might be a good candidate too. So would jose osuna (if the coaching staff even pays attention to him). polanco's swing is so amateur hour that it isn't worth bothering. speaking of not worth bothering, why bother tweaking mercers swing or cervellis swing.

imo

Troy Loney
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:34 am

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/11/ ... tions.html

They are predicting reasonable salaries for this FA class. Basically, the Pirates could upgrade SS and 3B for under $30M per year.

Dickie Dunn
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:43 am

Here's Branson's track record. Granted, some of this is due to **** ass players being signed by the GM who inexplicably received a four year extension, but nonetheless it's ugly.

2014: 10th runs, 7th slugging, 5th OPS+, 6th HR
2015: 12th runs, 20th slugging, 15th OPS+, 23rd HR
2016: 13th runs, 23rd slugging, 19th OPS+, 26th HR
2017: 28th runs, 29th slugging, 29th OPS+, 29th HR
Last edited by Dickie Dunn on Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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2017-2018 Pittsburgh Pirates Off-Season Thread

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:45 am

Not going to hold bannister culpable for those anemic slugging numbers. David freeze routinely hit 4th in the order in the first half of the season. Cutch showed up one half of the season. Marte stunk when he returned. and so on and so forth.

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