What is the role of prison in our society?

Gaucho
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Gaucho » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Hard drugs should never be legal.
Define "hard".

Guinness
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Guinness » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:29 pm

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-0 ... -100-years

Image

Also:

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/15/us_has_ ... r_country/

More people in prison per capita than China.

O'er the laaa-aaand of the freeeeeeeeee... and the hoooooooome of the braaaaaaaaave.

lol

tifosi77
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby tifosi77 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:43 pm

Wasn't there another data point along those lines.............. since 9/11 cops have killed more Americans than terrorists? Something like that.

Guinness
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Guinness » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:56 pm

Wasn't there another data point along those lines.............. since 9/11 cops have killed more Americans than terrorists? Something like that.
I believe so. You're more likely to be killed by a cop... or a jelly fish, for that matter (if I recall correctly) than a "terrorist".

Granting that terrorists with nukes would be bad, mmkay, 'mur'cans have been wizzing their drawers and actively or passively approving the GWOT (lol) since 2001 and the "War on Drugs" (tm) since 198-something and thereby achieving the complete realization of a Bernaysian conception of society and/or the culmination of gunvernment education... or both, of course.

columbia
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby columbia » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:00 pm

Based on the shootings within five blocks of my house, I'm more likely to be shot by a teenager with an illegal gun.

Shyster
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Shyster » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:13 pm

^^Do you concern yourself with the societal cost of addiction? I don't view selling heroin or cocaine as victimless. The victim is the person who is a slave to their addiction and to their dealer.
Unless they were administered drugs against their will, the choice to start taking drugs in the first place was voluntary. The best way to not become a drug addict is to never do drugs in the first place.

For a libertarian, the only societal cost would maybe be an increase in crime, since making people pay for others also violates the non-aggression principle. I may choose to contribute to charities that help addicts, but I shouldn't be forced to pay for them. And the potential of increased crime could be mitigated by the libertarian view on arms, which is (from the LP platform): "We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, registering, or monitoring the ownership, manufacture, or transfer of firearms or ammunition."

Willie Kool
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Willie Kool » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:13 pm

Based on the shootings within five blocks of my house, I'm more likely to be shot by a teenager with an illegal gun.
Which is likely only on the street due to drugs being illegal.

columbia
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby columbia » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:14 pm

Based on the shootings within five blocks of my house, I'm more likely to be shot by a teenager with an illegal gun.
Which is likely only on the street due to drugs being illegal.
Indeed.

Willie Kool
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Willie Kool » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:14 pm

the "War on Drugs" (tm) since 198-something
1971

Craig
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Craig » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:16 pm

Hard drugs should never be legal.
Define "hard".
Viagra. Ohhhhhhh!!

AuthorTony
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby AuthorTony » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:17 pm

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-0 ... -100-years
O'er the laaa-aaand of the freeeeeeeeee... and the hoooooooome of the braaaaaaaaave
Image

Freddy Rumsen
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:29 pm

Adam-12 was a good show.

columbia
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby columbia » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:55 am

Adam-12 was a good show.
:lol:

geezer
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby geezer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:17 pm

Based on the shootings within five blocks of my house, I'm more likely to be shot by a teenager with an illegal gun.
Which is likely only on the street due to drugs being illegal.
Indeed.
I'm for legalizing everything. The only reservation I have is that I want no tax payer money for "rehabilitation". You want to use , drink. shoot up whatever don't look for people to help you out if you later want to change. There will be deaths but it's self-imposed. I even object to a trecent Pa. Wolf initiative to provide some kind of anti-overdose drug for state cops and EMS people fto savw junkies. Sounds harsh but if your'e dumb enough to use smack you should be on your own. The war on drugs is a total loser and obviously teens and other will use regardless of government limitations. But I don't think we can incur the legal costs or should incur the medical costs for those that mess themselves up.
I would say people that think current drug dealers are going to get fast food jobs or any legal employment are kidding themselves. They're predators and most will continue in criminal lifestyles. Long term drying up this money supply may change some lives but it would likely take a generation.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:20 pm

if drugs were legal, people wouldn't own illegal weapons?

it's not like if they legalize heroin it's going to be cheap enough for heroin addicts to buy it. In fact, the price is going to sky rocket since it's going to be taxed and controlled. More violence and law-breaking could happen if it was legalized.

keyword: could. I don't know if it will or not. I don't know if I'm for or against legalizing all drugs. But yeah...I'm just saying it's not that easy to tell if crime will decrease because of legalization

Craig
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Craig » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:28 pm

Im shocked that you miss the point of decriminalizing it. Shocked i tell you!

King Colby
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby King Colby » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:37 pm

Honestly if we are going to have long-term prisons (which I do not really like) they should only be for violent, capital crimes (murder, rape, and Aggravated Assault).

Everything else should be Restorative (Eye for an Eye, in the non-literal sense of that).
100% this.

If you are a non-violent criminal, incarceration is idiotic. Restorative is the right solution.

And i fully support complete legalization/regulation of all drugs.

Question: what do you do with criminals who POTENTIALLY harm others, i.e. DUI/DWI?

King Colby
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby King Colby » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:46 pm

I hate the anti-overdose drugs idea. So we are paying to have coppers save these people, 95 or even 99% of which will go right back to smack

Sarcastic
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Sarcastic » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:59 pm

Yeah I guess that makes sense. Also less chance of crime, robberies, murders etc. You would really kill the drug game for the cartel especially if you could do this.

Watching Lost for Life now, I hate these people. No excuse after watching the video
Getting drug syndicates out of the game should be reason enough to legalize. How many people each year are killed or enslaved or raped or whatever else because such criminals are as powerful as they are ruthless. Administer drugs to registered users at clinics. Stores are kinda iffy with me. We can't have people walk around or drive while high, so smart rules have to be put in place before legalization. One would think the government would be happy to get tax money off it, but politicians can't appear as drug pushers or they don't get elected.

Another issues is that prisons make money. I watched some documentary that mentioned the state of Texas would go bankrupt if not for business made through prison workers. There is a whole lot of political mambo jumbo involved.

tifosi77
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:16 pm

Adam-12 was a good show.
:lol:
That and Emergency! were my favorite shows when I was little. When I first moved to LA, I was excited to get an apartment in the Rampart area because of the connection to those shows. Then I found out what a gang-infested sh!thole Rampart was and I was sad.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:18 pm

Im shocked that you miss the point of decriminalizing it. Shocked i tell you!
what, in your opinion, is the point of decriminalization?

AuthorTony
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby AuthorTony » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:20 pm

One would think the government would be happy to get tax money off it, but politicians can't appear as drug pushers or they don't get elected.

Another issues is that prisons make money. I watched some documentary that mentioned the state of Texas would go bankrupt if not for business made through prison workers. There is a whole lot of political mambo jumbo involved.
Prisons are a HUGE business and many people are getting extremely wealthy off of locking up small time drug dealers. Also, don't underestimate how many "legit" businesses are raking in huge profits from the drugs trade. It's from the top down. The reason drugs aren't legal are because too many power players owe their financial lives to illegal drugs.

tifosi77
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:26 pm

But yeah...I'm just saying it's not that easy to tell if crime will decrease because of legalization
Technically speaking, crime will be drastically reduced after legalization. Between 2001 and 2013 over half the people in federal prisons for sentences of greater than 1 year were serving a drug-related conviction. That number is a little below 20% for state offenders. Roughly a quarter of all people on probation have a drug conviction as their most serious offense. After decriminalization, none of those people would be in criminal justice system at all. (Well....... the vast majority of them, probably.)

Do you think that legalization will lead to an increase in other violent or property crimes? Because in the few jurisdictions where decriminalization has been implemented, that simply doesn't bear out. There's a brief spike in use for a year or two as people test the waters, so to speak. But long term evidence show use tends to drop off, and drop off fairly dramatically the longer the time scale.

Gabe
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby Gabe » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:31 pm

Depends on the prison. R&R at a minimum security, white collar resort prison. Or is it a federal pound me in the a** prison?
:thumb:

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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What is the role of prison in our society?

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:37 pm

But yeah...I'm just saying it's not that easy to tell if crime will decrease because of legalization
Technically speaking, crime will be drastically reduced after legalization. Between 2001 and 2013 over half the people in federal prisons for sentences of greater than 1 year were serving a drug-related conviction. That number is a little below 20% for state offenders. Roughly a quarter of all people on probation have a drug conviction as their most serious offense. After decriminalization, none of those people would be in criminal justice system at all. (Well....... the vast majority of them, probably.)

Do you think that legalization will lead to an increase in other violent or property crimes? Because in the few jurisdictions where decriminalization has been implemented, that simply doesn't bear out. There's a brief spike in use for a year or two as people test the waters, so to speak. But long term evidence show use tends to drop off, and drop off fairly dramatically the longer the time scale.
Are we talking about pot or hard drugs?

I'm in favor of legalizing pot. Idk about hard drugs.


Though the penalties for drug crimes are too harsh across the board

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