What is the role of prison in our society?

[redwill]

I'd rather be dead than in prison.

Even if some nice organization gave you a doggie?

[Miami Vice]

Look at Darren Sharper, the former Pro Bowler. He drugged and raped so many women, and there are likely many more than have come forward. He will be out of prison in a few years.

He should live penniless and looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.

[tifosi77]

Look at Darren Sharper, the former Pro Bowler. He drugged and raped so many women, and there are likely many more than have come forward. He will be out of prison in a few years.

He should live penniless and looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.

I don't think that's the type of offender we're talking about here. Nor would I say is he representative of the majority of the prison population.

[columbia]

I'd rather be dead than in prison.

Even if some nice organization gave you a doggie?

I guess I would have to make sure that I committed my felony in Kansas.

[Shyster]

Shyster seems to have a specific set of metrics to determine membership in the libertarian club.
I wonder where full drug legalization fits into that.

The core libertarian belief (and perhaps the only libertarian belief, since everything else logically flows from it) is the Non-Aggression Principle, which is essentially the principle that people have the absolute right to make their own choices and do what the will with their own property so long as they do not involve aggression—which is the use or threat of force or fraud—against other people. The only legitimate use of force is in self-defense against the wrongful use of force by another. Force and aggression are defined broadly, and they encompass pretty much any encroachment on another person's life, liberty, or property without consent or by deceit. Anything which, if not done, would result in fines, arrest or the like is also aggression. Thus, libertarians would say that the imposition of taxes is an act of force/aggression, because if I don't pay taxes then eventually a bunch of people with badges and guns are going to show up to arrest me and haul me off to jail.

Someone else using drugs or selling drugs to others does not result in force or aggression against me, so therefore I have no right to stop them. It would be improper aggression for me to do so. All drugs should be legal. That is, in fact, part of the platform of the Libertarian Party: "We favor the repeal of all laws creating 'crimes' without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, since only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes."

My view on prison is that prison is not for either punishment or rehabilitation. It is to keep those who cannot follow the law the heck away from the rest of us. Of course, there are also hundreds of thousands of people in jail who I do not believe belong there because they committed victimless crimes like selling certain substances or services (like sexual acts) to willing customers.

[Miami Vice]

^^Do you concern yourself with the societal cost of addiction? I don't view selling heroin or cocaine as victimless. The victim is the person who is a slave to their addiction and to their dealer.

[shmenguin]

How about for a teenage murderer? Should they be allowed a chance at "rehabilitation," or should they pay for their cruelty forever?

This is the first case profiled in the doc, and it sickened me more than any true crime story I've ever seen. Hearing them think they should be freed after this is outrageous. They thought it would be fun to mash up Columbine and a Scream movie, so they stabbed a friend to death, and filmed themselves planning it and afterward http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_ ... o_Stoddart

i don't think anyone reasonable would watch this movie and be swayed towards a more compassionate approach to this sentencing. i have some empathy for the guy who was sexually abused by his stepfather, with his mother not intervening - and then he killed them. but everyone else deserves to be in prison. the fact that they were 16 or 17 doesn't resonate with me. 18 is a fairly arbitrary cutoff, since the human brain doesn't even stop developing until your mid 20's. if you want to say that they aren't responsible for their actions because of their lack of maturity, you can apply that to plenty of adults in a state of arrested development who do not receive any leniency.

circumstances compelled them to kill people in cold blood. circumstances can be a real b**** sometimes, and plenty of adults in prison could use the same excuse as to why they should be free. not everyone can receive justice. it's impossible. but in these cases, the families of the dead deserve it more than a few messed up teenagers.

[shmenguin]

^^Do you concern yourself with the societal cost of addiction? I don't view selling heroin or cocaine as victimless. The victim is the person who is a slave to their addiction and to their dealer.

the bigger victim is the addict who is thrown into jail for his struggles.

and if you're addicted to heroin it's a you problem. not a drug problem.

[Jofa Guy]

My sister had the heroin addiction problem, and she ultimately quit due to very unfortunate circumstances that I don't want to explain. I think legalizing drugs is a great idea, because they will get it if they want.

However, if you do legalize heroin, you don't sell it in stores do you? I highly doubt it. I agree that it's the own person's fault if they get addicted, and they can get help if they really want it

[columbia]

My sister had the heroin addiction problem, and she ultimately quit due to very unfortunate circumstances that I don't want to explain. I think legalizing drugs is a great idea, because they will get it if they want.

However, if you do legalize heroin, you don't sell it in stores do you? I highly doubt it. I agree that it's the own person's fault if they get addicted, and they can get help if they really want it

It would be better for addicts to score at the CVS than from "Lou", who stops by twice a day with his product. I mean, it's already happening with the various synthetic opiates.

[Jofa Guy]

Yeah I guess that makes sense. Also less chance of crime, robberies, murders etc. You would really kill the drug game for the cartel especially if you could do this.

Watching Lost for Life now, I hate these people. No excuse after watching the video

[tifosi77]

My sister had the heroin addiction problem, and she ultimately quit due to very unfortunate circumstances that I don't want to explain. I think legalizing drugs is a great idea, because they will get it if they want.

However, if you do legalize heroin, you don't sell it in stores do you? I highly doubt it. I agree that it's the own person's fault if they get addicted, and they can get help if they really want it

It would be better for addicts to score at the CVS than from "Lou", who stops by twice a day with his product. I mean, it's already happening with the various synthetic opiates.

This is one of Mrs Tif's big arguments; to the extent that pot is in any way, shape or form a 'gateway drug' it is because you have to procure it from criminals and consorting with a crowd that might have other products on offer.

[Jofa Guy]

I can see why Mrs. Tif has that opinion that if they're selling pot then you'd be inclined to do other drugs they may have.

I can tell you from experience, and its just me, but I was never inclined to take any other drugs when I was there for another reason. You don't smoke weed and then think "hmm I wonder what heroin will be like?"

Thats just me

[tifosi77]

Yeah, the way the term 'gateway drug' as used by prohibitionists simply doesn't exist in the real world. There's no pharmacological link between pot and harder drugs. Pot is a 'gateway' in the same sense that alcohol and tobacco are gateways; they are far and away the most common and widely available drugs you can get your hands on, so it makes complete sense that someone who has tried heroin or meth has previously tried pot (or tobacco, or alcohol). But it's a statistical link, not a causal one.

[PFiDC]

I've never done heroin or Meth.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I think there is a bit of the old turtle and the scorpion fable that some folks pushing hardcore drug legalization need to think about. I am afraid that associated crimes with drug use will not see a dramatic drop despite CVS being the source rather than the a dark alley.

[CBear3]

My sister had the heroin addiction problem, and she ultimately quit due to very unfortunate circumstances that I don't want to explain. I think legalizing drugs is a great idea, because they will get it if they want.

However, if you do legalize heroin, you don't sell it in stores do you? I highly doubt it. I agree that it's the own person's fault if they get addicted, and they can get help if they really want it

It would be better for addicts to score at the CVS than from "Lou", who stops by twice a day with his product. I mean, it's already happening with the various synthetic opiates.

This is one of Mrs Tif's big arguments; to the extent that pot is in any way, shape or form a 'gateway drug' it is because you have to procure it from criminals and consorting with a crowd that might have other products on offer.

I'm with Mrs Tif. The only way it's a gateway drug is in crossing the line to buying illegal narcotics from "Lou" as opposed to walking into the liquor store. If pot is sold at CVS, that "gateway" or Pandora's box hasn't been opened so I don't see an increased risk in turning people into heroin users.

[columbia]

It's the same as access to guns. We could eliminate the 2nd Amendment, but that won't stop the purchase and flow of guns in to the country.

[PFiDC]

I think there is a bit of the old turtle and the scorpion fable that some folks pushing hardcore drug legalization need to think about. I am afraid that associated crimes with drug use will not see a dramatic drop despite CVS being the source rather than the a dark alley.

Agreed. A meth head with no money to go to CVS to get his meth is just as dangerous as a meth head with no money who has to go to a 'dealer'.

I am all for revamping the punishment for drug offenses though. There would have to be special circumstances/punishments for crimes committed under the influence or for the procurement of said drugs though.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I think there is a bit of the old turtle and the scorpion fable that some folks pushing hardcore drug legalization need to think about. I am afraid that associated crimes with drug use will not see a dramatic drop despite CVS being the source rather than the a dark alley.

Agreed. A meth head with no money to go to CVS to get his meth is just as dangerous as a meth head with no money who has to go to a 'dealer'.

I am all for revamping the punishment for drug offenses though. There would have to be special circumstances/punishments for crimes committed under the influence or for the procurement of said drugs though.

I am a firm believer that all drug offences, outside of honest to goodness trafficking, should at worst be a ticket. No jail time.

[PFiDC]

I think there is a bit of the old turtle and the scorpion fable that some folks pushing hardcore drug legalization need to think about. I am afraid that associated crimes with drug use will not see a dramatic drop despite CVS being the source rather than the a dark alley.

Agreed. A meth head with no money to go to CVS to get his meth is just as dangerous as a meth head with no money who has to go to a 'dealer'.

I am all for revamping the punishment for drug offenses though. There would have to be special circumstances/punishments for crimes committed under the influence or for the procurement of said drugs though.

I am a firm believer that all drug offences, outside of honest to goodness trafficking, should at worst be a ticket. No jail time.

We are talking possession or intoxication, right? I guess robbing someone for drug money really isn't a drug offense (not being snarky). It's not the motive that makes it a drug crime.

[Craig]

I dont understand what the drawback to decriminalizing drugs is. What does a meth head robbing someone have to do with it? Does a drunk attacking someone not get arrested because alcohol is legal?

[tifosi77]

I dont understand what the drawback to decriminalizing drugs is. What does a meth head robbing someone have to do with it? Does a drunk attacking someone not get arrested because alcohol is legal?

The prohibitionists are convinced that if drugs are legalized it will result in rampant increases in drug use. This despite evidence from the few places that have tried decriminalization showing that the reverse is actually true.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I've never done heroin or Meth.

methroin, on the other hand..

[Willie Kool]

I've never done heroin or Meth.

Neither have I.