I need a ruling on this

nocera
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I need a ruling on this

Postby nocera » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:33 pm

You don't have to use corporate shorthand to end meetings sooner. Just talk like a normal person. The idea that you're saving time by using these buzz words is bananas.


meow
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I need a ruling on this

Postby meow » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:50 pm

You’ve never met with executives. It’s all cliches and corporate speak. Maybe you need a refresher course

shmenguin
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I need a ruling on this

Postby shmenguin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:37 pm

You don't have to use corporate shorthand to end meetings sooner. Just talk like a normal person. The idea that you're saving time by using these buzz words is bananas.

Not how it works. And remember, me and meow like the shorthand. We like using it and we like when others do because it’s effective communication.

willeyeam
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I need a ruling on this

Postby willeyeam » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:40 pm

What if I told you that you can effectively communicate without the buzzwords? You have meow on your side. Think about this

meow
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I need a ruling on this

Postby meow » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:48 pm

Ok ulf. We don’t need the opinion of a guy that has “assistant to the...” in his title.

willeyeam
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I need a ruling on this

Postby willeyeam » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:48 pm

Hmm. Let me circle back

meow
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I need a ruling on this

Postby meow » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:50 pm

Let’s reassess in the morning.

King Colby
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I need a ruling on this

Postby King Colby » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:07 pm

This feels like a parking lot item

tifosi77
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I need a ruling on this

Postby tifosi77 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:11 pm

We need to make sure the Pfizer Pfaction and the Moderna Mods are aligned on talking points (J&J is out of the loop, and probably doesn't have the bandwidth to tackle any backfill). Let's put a pin in this for now and circle back later, but I have a hard stop at 4 pm today so it may need to be offline.

shmenguin
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I need a ruling on this

Postby shmenguin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:19 pm

So many opinions, so few value props.

Shyster
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I need a ruling on this

Postby Shyster » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:19 pm

Treating “data” as a plural word. I won’t do it. It’s a SINGLE collection of something. A “deck” of cards. A “flock” of seagulls.

Data describes a singular collection. Why is this happening and who among you is part of the problem?
According to Garner's Modern American Usage (p. 225, 3d ed. 2009), you are incorrect. Data is correctly a plural. Although there is widespread use of data as a mass-count noun with a singular verb, that form is technically incorrect. As LITT mentioned, the true singular usage is "datum."

meow
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I need a ruling on this

Postby meow » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:31 pm

Garner can get bent

meow
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I need a ruling on this

Postby meow » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:31 pm

Excuse me. Get bentum

shmenguin
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I need a ruling on this

Postby shmenguin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:36 pm

What’s Garner’s inherent authority here? Who decided this?

There isn’t a day in the last 20 years of my job where the concept of “data” hasn’t been involved. I’ve had thousands of conversations with various SMEs and nobody has ever embarrassed themselves like Garner and said “thE dAtA aRE IntEREsTInG”

dodint
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I need a ruling on this

Postby dodint » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:42 pm

Excuse me. Get bentum
I actually chuckled at this. Dumb. :)

Shyster
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I need a ruling on this

Postby Shyster » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:54 pm

What’s Garner’s inherent authority here? Who decided this?
He's a lawyer, lexicographer, and teacher who has written more than two dozen books about grammar, usage, and style and has taught at University of Texas School of Law, the University of California at Berkeley, Texas Tech University School of Law, and Texas A&M University School of Law. He's been the editor-in-chief of Black's Law Dictionary since the seventh edition and has written at multiple usage dictionaries from scratch, including Garner's Modern English Usage, The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style, and Garner's Dictionary of Legal Usage. He's also the author of the grammar-and-usage chapter in The Chicago Manual of Style. He owns literally thousands of books (some dating back centuries) on grammar and usage, and is the exactly the sort of person you can be completely sure has read every last one of them. (Trust me, I've met the man and taken CLE courses from him). The federal government has retained him as a consultant for all amendments to the Federal Rules of Civil, Appellate, Evidence, Bankruptcy, and Criminal Procedure. He's probably the most accomplished English-language grammarian currently alive.

robbiestoupe
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I need a ruling on this

Postby robbiestoupe » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:10 pm

Is that hair gel meow, shmenguin?

shmenguin
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I need a ruling on this

Postby shmenguin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:12 pm

I see no inherent authority. More inhaling of farts.

dodint
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I need a ruling on this

Postby dodint » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:45 pm

You lost me at Berkeley.

Shyster
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I need a ruling on this

Postby Shyster » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:14 pm

I see no inherent authority. More inhaling of farts.
What sort of "authority" are you looking for? Because Garner literally wrote the dictionary, so I'm not sure who could qualify.

shmenguin
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I need a ruling on this

Postby shmenguin » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:37 pm

I see no inherent authority. More inhaling of farts.
What sort of "authority" are you looking for? Because Garner literally wrote the dictionary, so I'm not sure who could qualify.
He’s an interpreter of language, not a creator. He can interpret incorrectly.

But in this case, sadly things are what they are. Datum is singular. Data is plural. It seems to be very much a plain fact based on 12 seconds of googling.

...a fact that I will ignore for the rest of my life.

count2infinity
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I need a ruling on this

Postby count2infinity » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:21 am

I got scolded in my Ph.D. candidacy exam when I slipped and said "spectrums". The one committee member was on his computer working on something or another. He stopped, eyes straight up at me, said "spectra", and then went back to work on his laptop. :lol:

Sam's Drunk Dog
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I need a ruling on this

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:14 pm

You should have replied, "Ghosts! Where?"

Shyster
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I need a ruling on this

Postby Shyster » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:36 pm

As an aside, the resource for grammar questions of that type is a usage dictionary such as Garner's Modern English Usage or Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage. A regular dictionary tells you what words mean. A usage dictionary tells you how to properly use a word, especially when there might be similar words or confusing or changing uses. Garner also offers a five-stage scale for situations where usage is changing (such as data being used as a mass singular noun), which is basically:

1. The form is used by only a small minority and is widely viewed as incorrect.
2. The form spreads to a significant fraction of the language community but is remains unacceptable in standard usage.
3. The form becomes commonplace even among well-educated people but is still avoided in careful usage.
4. The form becomes virtually universal but is opposed by a few linguistic holdouts on cogent grounds.
5. The form is universally accepted.

Garner says "data" as a mass-count singular noun is at level 4. So while it originally started as a plural, and it is still opposed by the few that hold to the original meaning, it's modified form has become nearly universal.

Garner's Modern English Usage is $34 in paper and $21 for a Kindle version on Amazon. If anyone writes a fair bit or has kids in school, it's one of those books that's good to have around. There's also a specialized version (Garner's Dictionary of Legal Usage) specifically for lawyers.

MrKennethTKangaroo
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I need a ruling on this

Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Wed May 12, 2021 8:45 am

Got a free polo short from my employer yesterday. it doesn't fit well at all (shocker) but I was curious where I would even where this.

To work? A lot of people wear company polos to work I suppose.
To the golf course? Seems kind of tacky, no?
Anywhere else?

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