Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

columbia
Posts: 34731
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
Location: South Baldwin Yinzer Strokefest

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby columbia » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:02 pm

I was serious. I figured getting the opposite side of the spectrum's opinion would be good. Thanks!
It depends on how much time you want to spend on thinking about it. If the answer is "0", then a target date fund is your friend.

It you want to roll your own, that's certainly an option.

dodint
Posts: 59424
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:39 pm
Location: Cheer up, bіtch!
Contact:

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby dodint » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:07 pm

Source of the post I'm not a fan of target date (where you pick a fund based on the year you intend to retire) funds.
This is how the Lifecycle funds in the TSP work. It's okay, I guess. I manage my Roth IRA a little more hands on and aggressively.

ExPatriatePen
Posts: 2275
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:36 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:30 pm

I was serious. I figured getting the opposite side of the spectrum's opinion would be good. Thanks!
It depends on how much time you want to spend on thinking about it. If the answer is "0", then a target date fund is your friend.

It you want to roll your own, that's certainly an option.
This is where I disagree with Columbia. Index funds take the individual Equity choices out of the mix. That's a good thing as most people don't have the time or ability to pour over dozens if not hundreds of financial statements and stay on top of each individual equity.

Allocation mix (ratio of equity to bonds etc...) is a much easier process. Each indivual has a different appetite for risk.

If I was 57 and still had a large mortgage or family obligations then I'd want a different mix than another 57 year old who had a significant real-estate portfolio or who was expecting a windfall from an inheritance or a nice fixed retirement program or whatever.

Everyone's risk appetite is different even if there ages aren't. That's where you make adjustments, not in individual equities but in the allocation of Stocks vs. Bonds. Target date funds try to take care of that for you as well.

Tomas
Posts: 3444
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:28 am

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Tomas » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:10 pm

I was serious. I figured getting the opposite side of the spectrum's opinion would be good. Thanks!
It depends on how much time you want to spend on thinking about it. If the answer is "0", then a target date fund is your friend.

It you want to roll your own, that's certainly an option.
This is where I disagree with Columbia. Index funds take the individual Equity choices out of the mix. That's a good thing as most people don't have the time or ability to pour over dozens if not hundreds of financial statements and stay on top of each individual equity.

Allocation mix (ratio of equity to bonds etc...) is a much easier process. Each indivual has a different appetite for risk.

If I was 57 and still had a large mortgage or family obligations then I'd want a different mix than another 57 year old who had a significant real-estate portfolio or who was expecting a windfall from an inheritance or a nice fixed retirement program or whatever.

Everyone's risk appetite is different even if there ages aren't. That's where you make adjustments, not in individual equities but in the allocation of Stocks vs. Bonds. Target date funds try to take care of that for you as well.
The "two X year old individuals can be quite different in terms of their risk preferences" argument is excellent. I would add one extra point in favor of investing on your own. Target date funds tend to be expensive in terms of fund fees (you can google quite a lot of research on the Internet about it), compared to what you'd pay on your own if you simply mimicked their investment allocation (which target funds disclose). In addition to that "mark-up", the investment companies typically favor their own funds when composing their target funds. That will be less of a problem for, say, Fidelity target date fund (composed of the cheap Fidelity mutual funds) - but it can be quite an issue if your investment options are managed by, say, Transamerica (which tends to be quite expensive).

That being said: if you think you can find better use for your time compared to thinking about proper allocations of stocks vs bonds, domestic vs international, and when/how much to rebalance as you near retirement, then going with target date funds is not a bad option. You can have your peace of mind knowing that your money is being managed reasonably optimally for an "average" saver, with decreasing riskiness as you age - and spend your time on more things that you enjoy more...

Tomas
Posts: 3444
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:28 am

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Tomas » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:41 am

I don't even know what the hell I'm looking at...
First and most importantly, vast majority of retirement investment companies have investment advisers who can help you for free - over the phone or sometimes even via a personal meeting. [You just have to be aware that those advisers are not exactly independent, and so they will have the tendency to recommend the more expensive funds of their employer. You just need to insist that you look for "cheap index fund options" for your retirement.]

In addition, if you post:
a) The name of the investment company that manages your retirement funds
b) Names of, say, 5-6 cheapest funds in terms of fund fees (even expensive investment companies often have 2-3 very cheap funds to appease smarter investors)
c) The fund fees for the target date fund of the year you envision to retire

I bet you will get some free (and thus completely worthless :) ) advice from this board...

ExPatriatePen
Posts: 2275
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:36 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby ExPatriatePen » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:09 am

China devalues its currency... Those Chinese markets just continue to shine right? @columbia

count2infinity
Posts: 35726
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:06 pm
Location: All things must pass. With six you get eggroll. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.
Contact:

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby count2infinity » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:26 am


PFiDC
Posts: 9248
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:23 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby PFiDC » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:39 am

Let's continue to assume I am an idiot.

Isn't this Chinese economy thing bad for us?

Tomas
Posts: 3444
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:28 am

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Tomas » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:36 am

Once you know the available investing options, please post them.
@columbia
Not sure if this is what you are looking for. It's the best I could do to get it into the thread.

Name/Inception Date Asset Class Category 1 Year 3 Year 5 Year 10 Year/LOF* Returns As Of Bench- mark
FID CONTRAFUND (FCNTX)
05/17/1967
Stock Investments Large Cap 10.29% 17.42% 17.11% 9.85% 06/30/2015 Show
INVS DIVRS DIVD R5 (DDFIX)
12/31/2001
Stock Investments Large Cap 6.34% 16.99% 15.84% 8.48% 06/30/2015 Show
SPTN 500 INDEX ADV (FUSVX)
02/17/1988
Stock Investments Large Cap 7.39% 17.26% 17.29% 7.86% 06/30/2015 Show
SPTN TOT MKT IDX ADV (FSTVX)
11/05/1997
Stock Investments Large Cap 7.21% 17.61% 17.48% 8.28% 06/30/2015 Show
TRP DIV GROWTH ADV (TADGX)
12/30/1992
Stock Investments Large Cap 7.65% 16.10% 16.28% 7.85% 06/30/2015 Show
NB MDCP GRTH TRUST (NBMTX)
03/01/1979
Stock Investments Mid-Cap 15.96% 17.29% 17.99% 10.29% 06/30/2015 Show
RDGWTH MID CAP VAL I (SMVTX)
11/30/2001
Stock Investments Mid-Cap 0.03% 17.73% 15.77% 10.79% 06/30/2015 Show
SCOUT MID CAP (UMBMX)
10/31/2006
Stock Investments Mid-Cap 2.42% 16.11% 17.16% 11.11% 06/30/2015 Show
SPTN EXT MKT IDX ADV (FSEVX)
11/05/1997
Stock Investments Mid-Cap 6.32% 19.11% 18.17% 9.69% 06/30/2015 Show
ABF SM CAP VAL INV (AVPAX)
12/31/1998
Stock Investments Small Cap 2.65% 17.96% 16.24% 7.81% 06/30/2015 Show
GLENMEDE SMCP EQ ADV (GTCSX)
03/01/1991
Stock Investments Small Cap 4.38% 20.56% 19.56% 9.46% 06/30/2015 Show
JANUS TRITON T (JATTX)
02/25/2005
Stock Investments Small Cap 14.61% 20.04% 20.12% 13.85% 06/30/2015 Show
ALZGI NFJ INTL VL AD (AIVAX)
01/31/2003
Stock Investments International -8.18% 6.85% 7.22% 6.75% 06/30/2015 Show
ARTISAN INTL (ARTIX)
12/28/1995
Stock Investments International -0.66% 13.48% 13.15% 7.67% 06/30/2015 Show
INVS INTL GROWTH R5 (AIEVX)
04/07/1992
Stock Investments International -2.41% 10.94% 10.48% 7.69% 06/30/2015 Show
SPTN INTL INDEX ADV (FSIVX)
11/05/1997
Stock Investments International -4.14% 12.01% 9.89% 5.27% 06/30/2015 Show
COHEN & STEERS RLTY (CSRSX)
07/02/1991
Stock Investments Specialty 5.32% 9.11% 13.77% 7.46% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2005 (FFFVX)
11/06/2003
Blended Investment* N/A 2.21% 6.17% 7.07% 4.71% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2010 (FFFCX)
10/17/1996
Blended Investment* N/A 2.64% 7.70% 8.38% 5.35% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2015 (FFVFX)
11/06/2003
Blended Investment* N/A 3.00% 8.20% 8.76% 5.57% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2020 (FFFDX)
10/17/1996
Blended Investment* N/A 3.31% 8.97% 9.61% 5.67% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2025 (FFTWX)
11/06/2003
Blended Investment* N/A 3.59% 10.51% 10.74% 6.05% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2030 (FFFEX)
10/17/1996
Blended Investment* N/A 4.10% 11.32% 11.34% 6.00% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2035 (FFTHX)
11/06/2003
Blended Investment* N/A 4.35% 12.46% 12.05% 6.18% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2040 (FFFFX)
09/06/2000
Blended Investment* N/A 4.30% 12.57% 12.18% 6.15% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2045 (FFFGX)
06/01/2006
Blended Investment* N/A 4.41% 12.86% 12.36% 5.35% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2050 (FFFHX)
06/01/2006
Blended Investment* N/A 4.35% 12.94% 12.49% 5.13% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2055 (FDEEX)
06/01/2011
Blended Investment* N/A 4.39% 13.28% N/A 8.57% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM 2060 (FDKVX)
08/05/2014
Blended Investment* N/A N/A N/A N/A 7.14% 06/30/2015 Show
FID FREEDOM INCOME (FFFAX)
10/17/1996
Blended Investment* N/A 1.63% 4.21% 4.91% 4.12% 06/30/2015 Show
FID PURITAN (FPURX)
04/16/1947
Blended Investment* N/A 6.54% 12.84% 12.75% 7.41% 06/30/2015 Show
FED CAP PRESRVN ISP
08/01/1986
Bond Investments Stable Value 0.63% 0.82% 1.27% 2.54% 06/30/2015 Show
BLKRK HI YLD BD INST (BHYIX)
11/19/1998
Bond Investments Income 0.03% 7.91% 9.16% 8.01% 06/30/2015 Show
FIDELITY GOVT INCOME (FGOVX)
04/04/1979
Bond Investments Income 1.93% 1.19% 2.65% 4.14% 06/30/2015 Show
PIMCO REAL RTN BD AD (PARRX)
01/29/1997
Bond Investments Income -3.29% -1.15% 3.00% 4.14% 06/30/2015 Show
SPTN US BOND IDX ADV (FSITX)
03/08/1990
Bond Investments Income 1.78% 1.69% 3.22% 4.11% 06/30/2015 Show
PIMCO COMM REL RET A (PCRAX)
06/28/2002
Bond Investments Specialty -26.52% -10.27% -2.70% -1.64% 06/30/2015 Show
BAIRD CORE PLUS INV (BCOSX)
09/29/2000
Bond Investments N/A 1.77% 2.85% 4.59% 5.30% 06/30/2015 Show
FID US GOVT RES (FGRXX)
11/03/1981
7 day yield as of
06/30/2015 0.01%
Short-Term Investments N/A 0.01% 0.01% 0.01% 1.42% 06/30/2015 Show
Damn spoilers! All this time I though you did not post your funds. Here is what *I* (and only I - so this is absolutely NO INVESTMENT ADVICE) would do:

Say, I am thinking about retiring in 2050. Fidelity typically offers very cheap retirement options, and their target date fund for 2050 costs 0.75% (check the Exp Ratio):

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315792416

Not bad for a peace of mind. But, you can actually get the distribution of what they invest into:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315792416

There are way too many funds, but, basically, it looks like:

US Equity: 66%
International Equity: 28% (20% developed, 8% emerging)
Bonds: 5%
Money Market (cash, basically): 1%

Now, the cheapest funds (definitely for Fidelity, but pretty much generally) are called SPARTAN. So, I would simplify the very long list of funds in Fidelity 2050 into a short list mainly based on those Spartan funds:

So:

US Equity (66% of my retirement contribution) would go to Spartan Total Equity:
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315911800
which costs 0.05%

International equity:
20% would go to Spartan International:
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315911875
which costs 0.12%
8% would go to ??? (I don't see any Emerging Markets equity fund on your list. So, if there is any - preferably to the one managed by Fidelity. If not, I'd put the whole 28% in Spartan International)

Bonds:
5% would go to Spartan US Bonds:
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /316146372
which costs 0.07%

Cash:
1% would go to - well, who cares. You must have some default money market fund among your options. At this point, I'd simply add the 1% to the Bonds

Ultimately, the my retirement fund would be reasonably close to Fidelity 2050, but I'd pay only fees of:

0.66*0.05 + 0.28*0.12 +0.06*0.07 =0.078%

So, that's a saving of 0.75-0.078 = 0.672% over Fidelity 2050. Now, how important are such savings? Say, you invest $1,000 over 30 years in an account that yields 8% p.a., but takes 0.75% in fees. So, you will have the actual appreciation of 8%-0.75% = 7.25% every year. Over 30 years, your investment will grow to:
1,000*(1+0.0725)^30 = $8,164.30

If, instead, you paid fees of only 0.078%, then your appreciation would be 8%-0.078% = 7.922% every year. Over 30 years, your investment will grow to:
1,000*(1+0.07922)^30 = $9,846.90

Quite a difference...

columbia
Posts: 34731
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
Location: South Baldwin Yinzer Strokefest

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby columbia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:12 am

Going into today, the S&P 500 is off from the all time high by 8%.
It dropped 17% in 2011.

Make of that what you will.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27617
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:08 am

Going into today, the S&P 500 is off from the all time high by 8%.
It dropped 17% in 2011.

Make of that what you will.
Yeah, but you were wrong about China. I mean remember that time you were so wrong about China and we all celebrated how right EPP was?

columbia
Posts: 34731
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
Location: South Baldwin Yinzer Strokefest

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby columbia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:09 am

I caught a champagne cork in the eye; it still smarts....but it was a hell of a party.

columbia
Posts: 34731
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
Location: South Baldwin Yinzer Strokefest

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby columbia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:36 am

There's a a whole lot of this today:

Image

BigMck
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:09 pm
Location: At the mall watching Paul Blart.

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby BigMck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:56 am

I am afraid to check the 401k.

On the bright side, it's a good chance to buy low.

PFiDC
Posts: 9248
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:23 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby PFiDC » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:03 am

I am afraid to check the 401k.

On the bright side, it's a good chance to buy low.
:D

meow
Posts: 30599
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:53 am
Location: I have four degrees and am a moron. Don’t let that fool you

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby meow » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:08 am

Anyone else getting their guts pushed in today? Oh really? Everyone?

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:12 am

Days like these it pays to be poor. :)

BigMck
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:09 pm
Location: At the mall watching Paul Blart.

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby BigMck » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:23 am

Days like these it pays to keep your assets liquid. As in, iced tea and booze.

willeyeam
Posts: 39764
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 pm
Location: hodgepodge of nothingness

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby willeyeam » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:27 am

I'm happy I'm all cash at the moment. Well besides my 401K. Tomorrow is going to be a good buying opportunity.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27617
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Troy Loney » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:31 am

I think time to buy was when the market dropped like a thousand at opening bell....lol.

Stock Market is such a racket.

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:32 am

Image

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby grunthy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:34 am

It's going to probably fall further this week.

tifosi77
Posts: 51652
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby tifosi77 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:00 pm

I've been hearing radio commercials about Americans 'piggy backing' the Canadian social security system. What is the meaning of this?

columbia
Posts: 34731
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
Location: South Baldwin Yinzer Strokefest

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby columbia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:16 pm

I just did my part to prop up the market and make an unplanned $100 purchase.

Reveutopique
Posts: 1093
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:05 pm
Location: Leaving my account logged in

Investing, Stock Market and Retirement Planning Thread

Postby Reveutopique » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:56 pm

I've been hearing radio commercials about Americans 'piggy backing' the Canadian social security system. What is the meaning of this?
http://www.stockgumshoe.com/reviews/lif ... -security/

Is that what you heard?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests