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MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:57 am

Yeah, Lebron definitely has say in who he plays with, but the most important guy other than him was Kyrie, and he didn't have anything to do with that happening. I'm not sure any of those other players matter that much.

LITT
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Postby LITT » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:04 am

plus they are terribad at drafting. nba draft is kind of a crap shoot but look at their picks. anthony bennet. lol. asset management has been bad. wiggins in the love deal. kyrie. look at the celtics, they have a nice team composed of large internal components. the paul pierce deal helped but the cavs are bad at asset management

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:10 am

Do the Orlando Magic still exist?

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:25 am

Do the Orlando Magic still exist?
No

LITT
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Postby LITT » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:37 am

Do the Orlando Magic still exist?
they are in the nba but not really competitive

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:20 pm

Yeah, Lebron definitely has say in who he plays with, but the most important guy other than him was Kyrie, and he didn't have anything to do with that happening. I'm not sure any of those other players matter that much.
They largely don't. They got more athletic at the deadline and it helped for a bit, but ultimately this list of players are not making a difference on their own, and Thomas, for whatever reason (injuries, the pretty obvious fact that 16-17 was lightning in a bottle, etc.), never got it going in CLE:
Isaiah Thomas, Channing Frye, Jae Crowder, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Iman Shumpert, and their 2018 first-rounder in return for Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance Jr., George Hill, Rodney Hood, and a draft pick.
Kyrie forced his way out because he wasn't interested in playing second fiddle to Lebron. Once that happened, it was always going to be a one man team with occasional appearances by a competent Kevin Love.

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:04 pm

Do the Orlando Magic still exist?
they should be banned after trading Oladipo for Ibaka

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:52 pm

Stealing this from a FB post, so stats aren’t verified, but pretty compelling case for Jordan.
Jordan vs LeBron

Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:09 pm

"Lebron had much more offensive help*

Hahahahahahaaha ok

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:09 pm

You could probably make a similar list of insane things Bron has done that no one else has

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:10 pm

MJ won the NBA championship "MORE THAN ONCE in the same season"

Wtf

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:21 pm

I also notice it doesn't discuss assist numbers, rebound numbers, nor mention the fact that Jordan took 3 more shots per game than Lebron, but why would you include facts that go against your point?

I say that not to say Lebron is better than Jordan, I say that to say it's certainly a discussion and to just give it a

Image

Is... what was the word weenie used? Dumb?

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:22 pm

"Lebron had much more offensive help*

Hahahahahahaaha ok
That one was a bad overall, but in terms of Finals wins, it’s accurate that he has more help (maybe not much more).

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Postby MWB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:29 pm

I also notice it doesn't discuss assist numbers, rebound numbers, nor mention the fact that Jordan took 3 more shots per game than Lebron, but why would you include facts that go against your point?
Lebron has averaged about 1 more rebound and 2 more assists over his career. Numbers are definitely skewed toward Jordan’s skills, but I think the defensive aspect often gets overlooked. There are times that James doesn’t play defense, most likely because he has to conserve energy to be the offense on the other end.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:03 pm

The comparative stuff drives me nuts. Yes, Jordan is the best player of all time. Yes, Lebron is Top 5. I do agree that Jordan was much better defensively than James. People are obsessed with this argument...it's pretty clear cut IMO but Lebron is an all-time great in his own right.

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Postby MWB » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 pm

I actually agree, and think it’s pretty pointless. They played in completely different eras. I was just surprised by some of the stats (didn’t even read the bottom half of the post).

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Postby slappybrown » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 pm

Basically either view is perfectly fine imo

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 pm

Green left his hood on for the national anthem. Controversy incoming.

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:35 pm

Cavs are amped up.

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:42 pm

https://streamable.com/pr1c7

I think my favorite part is Osman's reaction in the background. :lol:

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Postby MrKennethTKangaroo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:44 am

Do the Orlando Magic still exist?
they are in the nba but not really competitive
So the magic are basically the pitt super panthers of florida

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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:24 am

I actually agree, and think it’s pretty pointless. They played in completely different eras. I was just surprised by some of the stats (didn’t even read the bottom half of the post).
I agree, for me the coolest thing about that is just seeing all of the things that Jordan accomplished.

Looks like we are headed for a sweep...how exciting :roll:

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Postby Gaucho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:30 am

LeBron is fantastic, but MJ was just out of this world. He transformed and transcended the sport.

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Postby count2infinity » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:22 am

I'm not sure I know what that means...

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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:42 am

Lebron and MJ are both legends. I think MJ had supreme teams compared to Lebron's for a majority of his career which is where I give Lebron the edge, but it's pointless and it's all optics.

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