Politics And Current Events

mikey
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Postby mikey » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:44 am

So you'd still consider a successful business man, yes?

Because I don't know that we're really gonna separate celebrity/biz/pols worlds again soon...
I think you can separate "businessman" with running the country as a business, and in that case, as a hypothetical, I wouldn't have any reason to assume that an effective business leader couldn't be an effective statesmen. The "running the country as a business" is a nonsense concept that doesn't apply to governance. I think the argument that Michael Lewis has made that the federal government should be seen as a giant risk management organization. The primary function of the government should be to mitigate risk, I think that thought exercise, if you apply it to the different agencies and what their purpose is, and the sort of goals they are tasked with, it just kind of helps simplify the vast operation that is the government.

Businesses in general seek to maximize profits by increasing revenues and controlling expenses. Risk management is a check on those two functions.

Unfortunately all the ghouls that have attached themselves to our current government (this is going back decades of course), have turned the government, more into a vehicle that privatizes profits and socializes losses. So if you view Trump as the broken emblem, or really, the basest illustration of that concept, it is the result of placing a shameless figure atop of an organization designed to obfuscate this reality.

So it's not that Trump is destroying a pristine institution, he's just exposing what the ghouls used to do in secret, or with subtlety.
Troy is back, folks. :thumb:

Mitigating risk sounds a lot like providing protection for its citizens from outside interference and enforcing contracts to me...the government sounds pretty out of the way in this scenario...over-simplifying, sure...but this doesn't horrific and overreaching the way I interpret your description...

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:48 am


nocera
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Postby nocera » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:50 am

I have a hard time trusting any polling after 2016.

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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:06 am

I have a hard time trusting any polling after 2016.
The polling was accurate.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:09 am

I have a hard time trusting any polling after 2016.
The polling was accurate.
I feel like this was discussed on here already but refresh my memory. Are we saying the polling was accurate and it was just people were lying to the pollsters?

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:10 am

Nearly all the results were within the margin of error.

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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:10 am

Nearly all the results were within the margin of error.
This.

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Postby nocera » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:11 am

Got it.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:14 am

I have a hard time trusting any polling after 2016.
The polling was accurate.
I feel like this was discussed on here already but refresh my memory. Are we saying the polling was accurate and it was just people were lying to the pollsters?
General Election polls had clinton at ike +3, the final tally was within the margin of error.

Polls leading up to the election were tightening and they never really had the chance to take into account the FBI reopening the investigation.

It wasn't the polls that were wrong, it was the predictors that were looking at the polls and saying Clinton was a shoe-in. 538 was giving Trump a 1/3 chance and getting berated by pundits for being out of step with the consensus.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:00 pm

House Democrats pushed House Intelligence Committee ranking member Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) to say in a closed-door meeting on Wednesday whether he had received Ukraine-based disinformation about Vice President Joe Biden.

Nunes declined to respond at all, saying “no” when asked if he would like to respond to the allegation that he has received a dossier of disinformation from pro-Russian Ukrainian MP Andrii Derkach.

Rep. Sean Maloney (D-NY) raised the issue at the meeting, convened to offer members of the panel the opportunity to review classified intelligence about what Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) described as “a concerted foreign interference campaign which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate, and the Presidential election in November.”
Unreal

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 pm

So you'd still consider a successful business man, yes?

Because I don't know that we're really gonna separate celebrity/biz/pols worlds again soon...
I think you can separate "businessman" with running the country as a business, and in that case, as a hypothetical, I wouldn't have any reason to assume that an effective business leader couldn't be an effective statesmen. The "running the country as a business" is a nonsense concept that doesn't apply to governance. I think the argument that Michael Lewis has made that the federal government should be seen as a giant risk management organization. The primary function of the government should be to mitigate risk, I think that thought exercise, if you apply it to the different agencies and what their purpose is, and the sort of goals they are tasked with, it just kind of helps simplify the vast operation that is the government.

Businesses in general seek to maximize profits by increasing revenues and controlling expenses. Risk management is a check on those two functions.

Unfortunately all the ghouls that have attached themselves to our current government (this is going back decades of course), have turned the government, more into a vehicle that privatizes profits and socializes losses. So if you view Trump as the broken emblem, or really, the basest illustration of that concept, it is the result of placing a shameless figure atop of an organization designed to obfuscate this reality.

So it's not that Trump is destroying a pristine institution, he's just exposing what the ghouls used to do in secret, or with subtlety.
:fist:

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 pm

House Democrats pushed House Intelligence Committee ranking member Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) to say in a closed-door meeting on Wednesday whether he had received Ukraine-based disinformation about Vice President Joe Biden.

Nunes declined to respond at all, saying “no” when asked if he would like to respond to the allegation that he has received a dossier of disinformation from pro-Russian Ukrainian MP Andrii Derkach.

Rep. Sean Maloney (D-NY) raised the issue at the meeting, convened to offer members of the panel the opportunity to review classified intelligence about what Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) described as “a concerted foreign interference campaign which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate, and the Presidential election in November.”
Unreal
Is this from a year ago?

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:02 pm

I believe it is. I just hadn’t seen this specific piece. How is the guy still on the intelligence committee?

Looks like it came up again: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker ... o-on-biden

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:20 pm

New stimulus...
.
Nothing for student loans
Nothing for rent/mortgage protection
.
It really does seem like the “stimulus” was the secondary priority to this bill.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:05 pm

5AF's favorite republican back at it...



I mostly just like the very very end of the clip and the bewilderment on the old dude's face.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:10 pm

my god Jordan is insufferable in that clip

what a sh*tbag

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:11 pm

Dr. Fauci, could you please just say we should shut down protests? Please?

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:17 pm

New stimulus...
.
Nothing for student loans
Nothing for rent/mortgage protection
.
It really does seem like the “stimulus” was the secondary priority to this bill.
Rent/mortgage protection I am fine with because people need somewhere to live. Student loans, no.

Faftorial
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Postby Faftorial » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:17 pm

"Five liberals on the Supreme Court." :lol:

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:21 pm

New stimulus...
.
Nothing for student loans
Nothing for rent/mortgage protection
.
It really does seem like the “stimulus” was the secondary priority to this bill.
Rent/mortgage protection I am fine with because people need somewhere to live. Student loans, no.
Out of curiosity here... why no to student loans? How are they different from rent or mortgage? Most jobs these days require college (debatable, yes, but let's not get caught up on that...), college costs money, people need loans to go to college. If people are out of work and can't pay the loans, how is forcing people to pay them or punishing them for having the debt good for anyone? It's not like someone went out and bought a car when the pandemic broke and said "heyyyyy, I can't pay for this now!"

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:23 pm

New stimulus...
.
Nothing for student loans
Nothing for rent/mortgage protection
.
It really does seem like the “stimulus” was the secondary priority to this bill.
Rent/mortgage protection I am fine with because people need somewhere to live. Student loans, no.
I’m curious as to why not? Currently they are deferred until Sept without interest being charged. Why not continue that?
.
The hard part of they don’t is the people that can’t pay will get buried and eventually hit default. This is largely due to the payments stacking and loan handlers not allowing a partial payment.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:35 pm

New stimulus...
.
Nothing for student loans
Nothing for rent/mortgage protection
.
It really does seem like the “stimulus” was the secondary priority to this bill.
Rent/mortgage protection I am fine with because people need somewhere to live. Student loans, no.
I’m curious as to why not? Currently they are deferred until Sept without interest being charged. Why not continue that?
.
The hard part of they don’t is the people that can’t pay will get buried and eventually hit default. This is largely due to the payments stacking and loan handlers not allowing a partial payment.

I am fine with no interest, but not fine with paying off people’s bad choices.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:35 pm

And the federal government needs to get out of backing student loans.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 pm

Jim Jordan is such a ******. Somewhere they have made this Fauci's fault because he provides recommendations, he's literally not in control of any of this.

Fauci isn't some boogeyman where he goes, THIS IS SHUT DOWN AND SO IS THAT. Literally controls zero of it.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 pm

I don't think that they're forgiving loans through this, just putting them off. So I'm not sure why you'd say "Student loans, no." then. Forgiving them/"paying off people's bad choices" wasn't on the table as far as I'm aware...

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