Politics And Current Events

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:30 pm

Like this is straight up crazy stuff:
“The Supreme Court is a danger to the health and well-being of the nation and even to democracy itself,” said Aaron Belkin, director of Take Back the Court, a progressive group advocating for court expansion. “A White House judicial reform commission has a historic opportunity to both explain the gravity of the threat and to help contain it. But we don’t have time to waste. Adding seats is the only way to restore balance to the court, and Congress should get started right away.”

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm

lol come on, let’s not play that game. I’m not a diehard patriot. Fighting against the US doesn’t make someone evil. If someone defected from the US military to fight for, say, the Sioux against the US (ala Dances with Wolves), we would be much sympathetic to their cause

Obviously fighting for slavery is not a sympathetic cause but Lee was siding with his state rather than his country. If the US military invaded Pittsburgh, would you fight for Pittsburgh or fight for the US? You’re seen as a traitor either way by the other side. You just better **** hope your side wins or else you’ll be seen as a villain
He and everyone who took up arms against the Union was a traitor. It's the literal definition of the word. Stop.

To your second point, we've gone over this time and again. The definition of 'terrorist' is entirely dependent on which side of the boom you're on. How do you think the British would've regarded George Washington had the Revolution not panned out? Do you think they would've taken his years of service during the French & Indian War and given him a noogie and told him to go back to planting tobacco in Mt Vernon? No. It would've been short drop-sudden stop time.

I can see why southerners in 1875 still held Lee and other Civil War fighters in some esteem. Why any of them do so today is damnable.
Washington was a traitor. The protesters in Hong Kong are traitors. Navalny is a traitor today.

The word means nothing. Being a traitor is often the best approach to a situation and says nothing about righteousness of your actions.

Lee is unambiguously *bad* because he fought for the enslavement of humans. He made a choice that it was appropriate to use his talents to kill the men who fought for the freedom of all men. He’s far worse than a traitor.

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Politics And Current Events

Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Like this is straight up crazy stuff:
“The Supreme Court is a danger to the health and well-being of the nation and even to democracy itself,” said Aaron Belkin, director of Take Back the Court, a progressive group advocating for court expansion. “A White House judicial reform commission has a historic opportunity to both explain the gravity of the threat and to help contain it. But we don’t have time to waste. Adding seats is the only way to restore balance to the court, and Congress should get started right away.”
I don’t see anything untrue there.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:32 pm

I'm on the side that it was a last ditch effort to get the Japanese to surrender, because from the mouths of the men who fought against them in the Pacific, they were brutal and weren't going to surrender under every last milatary person was dead, and they were willing to sacrifice their civilians as well. And it would have cost many, many more lives.
This is where I net out on it. As horrific as the nuclear attacks were, they ultimately resulted in far fewer civilian casualties than would've been endured by a prolonged conventional aerial bombardment and invasion would've brought about.

It's kind of gross to be so reductive, but that really is where it lands.

#plus3hours

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:34 pm

Also when you put it against the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo it's not as egregious in my mind

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:34 pm

Utilitarianism is gross but necessary.

Though...we’d have been better off with a prolonged war and more civilian casualties if it meant the A bomb was never actualized. But that’s not how it works. It was gonna be a thing regardless.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:35 pm

lol come on, let’s not play that game. I’m not a diehard patriot. Fighting against the US doesn’t make someone evil. If someone defected from the US military to fight for, say, the Sioux against the US (ala Dances with Wolves), we would be much sympathetic to their cause

Obviously fighting for slavery is not a sympathetic cause but Lee was siding with his state rather than his country. If the US military invaded Pittsburgh, would you fight for Pittsburgh or fight for the US? You’re seen as a traitor either way by the other side. You just better **** hope your side wins or else you’ll be seen as a villain
He and everyone who took up arms against the Union was a traitor. It's the literal definition of the word. Stop.

To your second point, we've gone over this time and again. The definition of 'terrorist' is entirely dependent on which side of the boom you're on. How do you think the British would've regarded George Washington had the Revolution not panned out? Do you think they would've taken his years of service during the French & Indian War and given him a noogie and told him to go back to planting tobacco in Mt Vernon? No. It would've been short drop-sudden stop time.

I can see why southerners in 1875 still held Lee and other Civil War fighters in some esteem. Why any of them do so today is damnable.
Washington was a traitor. The protesters in Hong Kong are traitors. Navalny is a traitor today.

The word means nothing. Being a traitor is often the best approach to a situation and says nothing about righteousness of your actions.

Lee is unambiguously *bad* because he fought for the enslavement of humans. He made a choice that it was appropriate to use his talents to kill the men who fought for the freedom of all men. He’s far worse than a traitor.
The draft riots after the Emancipation Proclamation were a thing for a reason.

No Yankee shed blood to free a single slave.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:36 pm

None. Right.

But ok...we can call all foot soldiers props of the elite. I don’t think that changes the story here.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:39 pm

It can be argued that Stalin killed far more people than Hitler and that the actions of the Soviet Army in Ukraine, Finland, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Germany where as bad as anything the Werhmacht ever did.

Yet because they were on our team it's not seen is that big a deal.
I would bet less than half of the US population are even aware of what Holodomor is or refers to. which is odd. There's such a significant lack of education on it
He's a Game of Thrones character.

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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:43 pm

Y’all Qaeda not quite taking their pending incarceration very seriously



Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:08 pm

That's the type of stuff that needs cracked down on especially hard.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:13 pm

Are you trying to tell me that "Bullhorn Lady" is also an anti-masker!? Get right out of town.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:38 pm

Lee fought for Virginia. The best way I heard it put is that pre-civil war it was THESE United States and on the backside we became THE United States. Without accounting for that societal outlook on our Republic in the mid 19th century, it's impossible to fairly critique the actors of the Civil War.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:40 pm

don't tell me shmengy, you thought Starship Troopers was about how fun it is to kill bugs, right?
If you replace every instance of the word 'bug' with 'Jew' the movie and character motivations come into sharper focus. And Verhoeven goes to great lengths to make that super clear.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:41 pm

omg that reddit take...
Don't get me started.......

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:41 pm

You already need a background check to purchase a firearm you would use for carry.

What would be the need to have another for carrying?
Depends on the temporal relationship between the purchase and the carry. If I walk out of the store with a new pistol and IWB holster and start carrying straight away, sure. But if I walk out of the store and six months later commit a crime that would flag me on a background check, and then 2 years after that decide I want to start carrying again...........

I don't really have a problem with requiring a 'refresh' on your background check. But at the same time, I think if you require that on whatever periodic basis, you shouldn't have to submit to a check for every individual interaction with the system during that period.
Though if you commit a crime to invalidate a later background check that would likely keep you from holding on to the weapon at all right?
I should hope it would flag the subject of the check, yes.

Any talk of background checks is kind of meaningless now, anyway, because NICS is hapless. That entire system requires deep reformation before any policy reforms can be engaged imo.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:43 pm

Pretty much
If the purpose of the Judicial branch is to be a check on the Legislative and Executive, isn't the role of those to provide a check for the Judicial? There was fierce debate over electing a President for life, for fear of tyranny, yet we do just that for the highest court in the land.

The only way for any change to happen is to go through the Leg & Exec, so I don't particularly see a problem with convening a group to come up with suggestions.

Now, the numbnuts shaf quoted in the next post is ridiculous, has already made up his mind on the correct course, and probably dislocated his knee jerking it so fast.

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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:45 pm

Lee fought for Virginia. The best way I heard it put is that pre-civil war it was THESE United States and on the backside we became THE United States. Without accounting for that societal outlook on our Republic in the mid 19th century, it's impossible to fairly critique the actors of the Civil War.
you're positing that tribal loyalty towards Virginia is a legitimate reason to take up arms in a war over slavery - and to be on the "Pro" side.

i find that to be a frivolous reason to engage in traitorous combat. even with this 10,000 foot view i have in 2021, i can comfortably say - still a piece of sh*t.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:45 pm

Pretty much

They don't have supervisory authority over it, but they do have custodial authority.

I wouldn't be the slightest bit put off if the commission was made up of people bringing both Executive and Legislative viewpoints to the Judiciary, since that's how it's staffed to begin with.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:45 pm

He and everyone who took up arms against the Union was a traitor. It's the literal definition of the word. Stop.
you're missing the entire point of the discussion. he was by definition an traitor. I don't care about that
Then the entire point of your discussion is............................. what, exactly? Where is this mythical 'nuance' of which you speak so ardently?

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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 pm

Also when you put it against the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo it's not as egregious in my mind
I think I've shared this story before, but that's never stopped me..........

When I was in Tokyo, we all had a day off work (Emperor Meiji's birthday), and some coworkers agreed to take me sightseeing. As we walked around, I was kind of amazed at how.... new everything was. Outside of the temples and inaris and such, nothing looked nearly as old as I was expecting.

I got to the point of actually drawing in the breath to ask them why everything was so new before it dawned on me and I caught myself. :face:

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Postby shmenguin » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:54 pm

Pretty much
If the purpose of the Judicial branch is to be a check on the Legislative and Executive, isn't the role of those to provide a check for the Judicial? There was fierce debate over electing a President for life, for fear of tyranny, yet we do just that for the highest court in the land.

The only way for any change to happen is to go through the Leg & Exec, so I don't particularly see a problem with convening a group to come up with suggestions.

Now, the numbnuts shaf quoted in the next post is ridiculous, has already made up his mind on the correct course, and probably dislocated his knee jerking it so fast.
Even if you disregard the lightning fast ascension of Justice Covid Barrett, the SCOTUS is an absurd entity. It's heavily partisan in both directions, the appointees are selected in backroom dealings by anonymous ghouls, the appointments are for life, and they all depend on the cadences in which certain people die.

there's no rhyme or reason, and it's now under control of the party that supports a recent insurrection attempt. what could go wrong?!?

...and if anyone wants to cite how we're doin' fine, recall Justice Boof's shenanigans before the election and how he was attempting to negate legitimate votes through plain dishonesty about a law he knows.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:58 pm

Where I lose patience with the "but the morals of the day" argument is that it sort of sets aside the robust abolition and manumission movements in the nascent decades of the Union. How states gained admittance in pairs - one pro, one anti - in close if not simultaneous proximity to each other to preserve balance in the Senate. The question of chattel slavery was central to the early development of the nation, and so the whole "but that was then" notion just loses all steam. Because even then, it wasn't a clear thing.

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Postby count2infinity » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:00 pm

Pretty much
If the purpose of the Judicial branch is to be a check on the Legislative and Executive, isn't the role of those to provide a check for the Judicial? There was fierce debate over electing a President for life, for fear of tyranny, yet we do just that for the highest court in the land.

The only way for any change to happen is to go through the Leg & Exec, so I don't particularly see a problem with convening a group to come up with suggestions.

Now, the numbnuts shaf quoted in the next post is ridiculous, has already made up his mind on the correct course, and probably dislocated his knee jerking it so fast.
Even if you disregard the lightning fast ascension of Justice Covid Barrett, the SCOTUS is an absurd entity. It's heavily partisan in both directions, the appointees are selected in backroom dealings by anonymous ghouls, the appointments are for life, and they all depend on the cadences in which certain people die.

there's no rhyme or reason, and it's now under control of the party that supports a recent insurrection attempt. what could go wrong?!?

...and if anyone wants to cite how we're doin' fine, recall Justice Boof's shenanigans before the election and how he was attempting to negate legitimate votes through plain dishonesty about a law he knows.
Not to mention how recent events have set the precedent that not only does the president select the nominee, but the only chance the nominee has of getting confirmed (or even get their nomination considered) is if the senate is the same political party as the president.

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Postby Beveridge » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:02 pm

If the usual scenario played out, the court would still be 5-4, right (instead of 6-3)?

Senate GOP started this spiral when they didn't do what they should have done at the end of Obama's term. It's forever going to be a thing to make sure "my team is in the lead". At this point, might as well overhaul the court before it's a game of adding seats to retake the lead.

Too bad...

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