Politics And Current Events

dodint
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Postby dodint » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:17 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
The problem is with the power of police unions there is no guarantee she'll even lose her job. If that means we have to incarcerate to keep her out of uniform I'm okay with putting her on trial.

dodint
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Postby dodint » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:19 am

If it was a white teenaged girl with her graduation tassels hanging from the rear mirror, in a car nice enough to imply her parents could afford a lawyer...is there a traffic stop in that situation? A more interesting question.
This is close, and the officer was convicted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... ine_Damond

Same city, similar circumstances to your hypo. White woman calls 911 and is shot by the responding officer.

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:39 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
I get all that but what about his family? How would they feel about her walking free despite the fact that she ended a 20 year olds life out of pure negligence?

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:40 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
I get all that but what about his family? How would they feel about her walking free despite the fact that she ended a 20 year olds life out of pure negligence?
Sue the police for millions?

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:41 am

Typically tags/inspection aren't a primary offense. You don't get pulled over for them, but if you're pulled over for something else they'll fine you for that too. I literally don't get the air freshener hanging from the rear view hate either, I've seen dozens of people hang their masks there as well. I can't imagine that being some huge unsafe distraction.
I've personally been pulled for expired plates and my wife has been pulled for expired inspection stickers.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:45 am

The road adjacent to the one on which I live is 35 mph for a random 1 mile section. State troopers sit there several times a month and write tickets between 9am and 6pm, hitting people heading to work, the store, etc. who dared drive 41mph on a straight stretch of road. Meanwhile coal truck fly through that same stretch at 70+ mph from 4-7am and the cops are never around then to issue tickets for genuinely dangerous driving.

It's a total scam.

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Postby AuthorTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:49 am



I've personally been pulled for expired plates and my wife has been pulled for expired inspection stickers.
While I was driving to the funeral home to make arrangements for my dad's cremation last year I was pulled over for an expired registration (first time I'd ever let it lapse, go figure.) I'm sure the trooper felt like a heel and left me off with a warning, but I'd been doing nothing wrong, just driving down the road while he followed and, apparently bored, ran my plates.

robbiestoupe
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Postby robbiestoupe » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:50 am

Typically tags/inspection aren't a primary offense. You don't get pulled over for them, but if you're pulled over for something else they'll fine you for that too. I literally don't get the air freshener hanging from the rear view hate either, I've seen dozens of people hang their masks there as well. I can't imagine that being some huge unsafe distraction.
Meh, I've seen the police pull over numerous people at the entrance/exit of the Butler exit of the turnpike for expired inspections/tags. The cop just sits there and when you slow down going through the toll booth, they are looking. I know this because I've seen them do it numerous times, and I've happened to be one of them. And that was my only "crime" if you will. :cry:
I always wondered what they were doing there. Pretty sure they aren't clocking the people going 25 through the 5 mph limit at the booth

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:50 am

Typically tags/inspection aren't a primary offense. You don't get pulled over for them, but if you're pulled over for something else they'll fine you for that too. I literally don't get the air freshener hanging from the rear view hate either, I've seen dozens of people hang their masks there as well. I can't imagine that being some huge unsafe distraction.
I've personally been pulled for expired plates and my wife has been pulled for expired inspection stickers.
Huh, I guess PA puts more emphasis on it then out here in the sticks

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:51 am

Are too darkly tinted windows a primary reason to pull someone over? I hate that you can't have matching tint (legally) between front and rear windows. Although many people do here. I guess they suck it up and take the fine?

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:51 am



I've personally been pulled for expired plates and my wife has been pulled for expired inspection stickers.
While I was driving to the funeral home to make arrangements for my dad's cremation last year I was pulled over for an expired registration (first time I'd ever let it lapse, go figure.) I'm sure the trooper felt like a heel and left me off with a warning, but I'd been doing nothing wrong, just driving down the road while he followed and, apparently bored, ran my plates.
So this is after the need to have registration stickers ended? Why would he be running your plates? That's something they should not be doing.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:53 am

So this is after the need to have registration stickers ended? Why would he be running your plates? That's something they should not be doing.
Yep. He was following me for about a mile. I guess he was just bored as there was no other reason.

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Postby shoeshine boy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:55 am

Are too darkly tinted windows a primary reason to pull someone over? I hate that you can't have matching tint (legally) between front and rear windows. Although many people do here. I guess they suck it up and take the fine?

you can have matching tint.....it just has to match the front. ;)

don't know how dark a tint you can have in SC but in GA I think we should be allowed to have darker tint than we are. my previous car was almost certainly over the limit but was a lifesaver in the Summer.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:06 am

The criminal justice system isn't in place to reconcile emotional reaction. You don't lock someone up because it would otherwise be distressing. There has to either be a deterrence element or improvement of public safety at play. So the state of victim's family isn't a factor, sadly.

But...deterrence wise, I think this does fall under the category of, "if you don't act carefully with your choice of weapon, you go to prison". It's not a civilian. A cop has a unique entitlement of being allowed to use physical force on you. They should be legally required to do it the right way. Whether it's the Chauvin murder or the whoopsie from this week, both cops should serve time because they violated public trust - and worse.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:08 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
This is a fascinating philosophical question, and you’re exactly right in how you pose it. There is no appropriate sentence. Of course there should be “justice” in some way, but what constitutes justice here? And for who? The family or society?

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Postby NTP66 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am

Are too darkly tinted windows a primary reason to pull someone over? I hate that you can't have matching tint (legally) between front and rear windows. Although many people do here. I guess they suck it up and take the fine?
I've heard two different answers to this question. PA has no actual tint law with regards to how dark the tint can be. I've only ever been bothered by a cop once, who pulled me over because of how 'dark' it was, then let me off with a ticket for just 2 tinted windows. He was 'cutting me a break' by not giving me a ticket for the rest of them.

He was, in fact, just being a jagoff.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:16 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
This is a fascinating philosophical question, and you’re exactly right in how you pose it. There is no appropriate sentence. Of course there should be “justice” in some way, but what constitutes justice here? And for who? The family or society?
neither and imo "justice" is a misnomer. criminal courts are utilitarian, not therapeutic. criminal court protects society from active threats either through rehabilitation or permanent removal of an individual from society. ideally the former, sometimes the latter.

this officer will likely no longer be a threat once they're stripped of their authority to commit violence against civilians.

civil court is where the feelings are resolved in this case.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:18 am

this officer will likely no longer be a threat once they're stripped of their authority to commit violence against civilians.

civil court is where the feelings are resolved in this case.
Yup. :thumb:

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:25 am

Saw this posted on Reddit yesterday, which led me to do some more Googling for videos. I knew Kensington was bad, but holy sht, I had no idea it was this bad.


Kane
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Postby Kane » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:26 am

Yeah, I saw that, too. It should have been tagged NSFL.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:36 am

Saw this posted on Reddit yesterday, which led me to do some more Googling for videos. I knew Kensington was bad, but holy sht, I had no idea it was this bad.

i haven't seen anywhere in Philly/Camden where there's just been trash all over the place. that's surprising it's that bad. but yeah, we throw people away and this is where they end up.

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:37 am

That's an intense dope fiend lean around the 50 seconds mark.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:38 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
This is a fascinating philosophical question, and you’re exactly right in how you pose it. There is no appropriate sentence. Of course there should be “justice” in some way, but what constitutes justice here? And for who? The family or society?
neither and imo "justice" is a misnomer. criminal courts are utilitarian, not therapeutic. criminal court protects society from active threats either through rehabilitation or permanent removal of an individual from society. ideally the former, sometimes the latter.

this officer will likely no longer be a threat once they're stripped of their authority to commit violence against civilians.

civil court is where the feelings are resolved in this case.
Yes, that makes sense. So does stripping them include incarceration? If so, how long is good? And I guess that leads to the deterrent question.

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:39 am

If traffic stops prevented what you’re describing I’d be totally okay with them. They don’t. You get caught speeding Monday and by Wednesday you’re right back to it.

As others said, school zones and various other 1-offs make sense. Two troopers sitting at the same speed trap on the turnpike does not. Instead of running traffic out the time to use strengthening community bonds. Visit schools more often. Give demonstrations. Do charity work with the community. That approach solves a lot of the distrust issues.

Most police stations do the bare minimum to integrate with the community they police. Why is that?
How do you know it's not preventing more accidents? Most of the accidents that do occur on the turnpike and other highways are due to speed. There may have been many more prevented due to a cop sitting in the same spot. I don't have sympathy for people having to pay a fine for speeding or anything preventable. It's an easy thing to avoid.

As for your second point, I agree they can get more involved with their communities. A lot of departments do, but a lot of departments don't. But that is not an end all be all either. There are still bad people out there.
So catch the bad people. Don’t spend your time writing tickets for traffic non-sense. Use that time to build cases against those bad people.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:48 am

Welcome to prison reform meeting injustice. Is the idea of prison to rehabilitate or to punish? You can’t rehab this mistake, you can take away her 2A right so she never has the opportunity to make the mistake again, but there was no malice involved.
So we’re just going to punish her for the sake of punishing her. We’re not teaching her a lesson, we’re not trying to make the world safer, we just want her to feel pain?
Yeah, not sure there’s an appropriate sentence for that.
This is a fascinating philosophical question, and you’re exactly right in how you pose it. There is no appropriate sentence. Of course there should be “justice” in some way, but what constitutes justice here? And for who? The family or society?
neither and imo "justice" is a misnomer. criminal courts are utilitarian, not therapeutic. criminal court protects society from active threats either through rehabilitation or permanent removal of an individual from society. ideally the former, sometimes the latter.

this officer will likely no longer be a threat once they're stripped of their authority to commit violence against civilians.

civil court is where the feelings are resolved in this case.
Yes, that makes sense. So does stripping them include incarceration? If so, how long is good? And I guess that leads to the deterrent question.
i don't know what the law is, but i hope there is one in place with the spirit of, "we need consequences for this degree of irresponsibility from police, or else we will see significantly more of these cases" - in which case a prison sentence is in order. something akin to a severe manslaughter charge.

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