Politics And Current Events

NAN
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Postby NAN » Fri May 25, 2018 12:41 pm

Just about to post. 2 victims, a student and a teacher. Teacher I guess got the gun away. Sick though.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 1:54 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri May 25, 2018 1:55 pm

At least the school year is just about over.

Guinness
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Postby Guinness » Fri May 25, 2018 2:24 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.
8 overdoses in public schools in 2018. Alone.

Oh, no... I'm sorry... that was on ONE DAY, in ONE SCHOOL. In ONE CITY.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/4 ... o-hospital

Bans work, tho'.

Guns are bad, mkay? 42 years ago, the State of NEW YORK had over EIGHTY school districts with gun clubs. These were sanctioned school activities with live ammunition fire on school premises. Presumably, the corridors must have been running streams of blood.

Nope.

I apologize for the NRO link: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/ ... c-w-cooke/

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 pm

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.
This is pretty much where I stand. The epidemic of school shootings speaks to a far larger societal/generational problem that is complex and not easy to address.

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Postby Morkle » Fri May 25, 2018 2:52 pm

I don't think anyone wants to talk mental health and how to address it seriously. Considering we're still telling people with PTSD to just deal with it, I don't really expect anything to improve.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 3:17 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.
8 overdoses in public schools in 2018. Alone.

Oh, no... I'm sorry... that was on ONE DAY, in ONE SCHOOL. In ONE CITY.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/4 ... o-hospital

Bans work, tho'.

Guns are bad, mkay? 42 years ago, the State of NEW YORK had over EIGHTY school districts with gun clubs. These were sanctioned school activities with live ammunition fire on school premises. Presumably, the corridors must have been running streams of blood.

Nope.

I apologize for the NRO link: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/ ... c-w-cooke/

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.
Not sure why you quoted my post and went off one a gun ban rant, but ok...

ETA: Hey, if you don't think school shootings are a problem, fine. I disagree. That doesn't mean it's the only problem, and it doesn't mean I think guns should be banned. As I stated last week, there's something different now (I think social media is a large part of it) than there used to be. That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri May 25, 2018 3:34 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.
8 overdoses in public schools in 2018. Alone.

Oh, no... I'm sorry... that was on ONE DAY, in ONE SCHOOL. In ONE CITY.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/4 ... o-hospital

Bans work, tho'.

Guns are bad, mkay? 42 years ago, the State of NEW YORK had over EIGHTY school districts with gun clubs. These were sanctioned school activities with live ammunition fire on school premises. Presumably, the corridors must have been running streams of blood.

Nope.

I apologize for the NRO link: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/ ... c-w-cooke/

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.
Americans are generally pretty bad at comparative statistics.

In every statistical measure the Left's War On Poverty is an unmitigated disaster (as is the Right's War On Drugs, for the whataboutists), but if we just spend more money then this time things will be better.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri May 25, 2018 3:35 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.
8 overdoses in public schools in 2018. Alone.

Oh, no... I'm sorry... that was on ONE DAY, in ONE SCHOOL. In ONE CITY.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/4 ... o-hospital

Bans work, tho'.

Guns are bad, mkay? 42 years ago, the State of NEW YORK had over EIGHTY school districts with gun clubs. These were sanctioned school activities with live ammunition fire on school premises. Presumably, the corridors must have been running streams of blood.

Nope.

I apologize for the NRO link: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/ ... c-w-cooke/

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.
Not sure why you quoted my post and went off one a gun ban rant, but ok...

ETA: Hey, if you don't think school shootings are a problem, fine. I disagree. That doesn't mean it's the only problem, and it doesn't mean I think guns should be banned. As I stated last week, there's something different now (I think social media is a large part of it) than there used to be. That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.
The access to guns in this case was negligence.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 3:41 pm

I haven't read about how this person got the guns, but did he have to do anything difficult to get the gun? It's usually, take them from a family member. Point is, the people who have done this, by and large, haven't had trouble getting the guns. To me, that goes to gun safety by gun owners and ease of obtaining guns.

Guinness
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Postby Guinness » Fri May 25, 2018 4:24 pm

So that brings the total to 11 shootings at middle and high schools this year involving someone bringing a gun into the school with the purpose of causing harm. That doesn't include the accidental discharge or incidents that happened in parking lots.
8 overdoses in public schools in 2018. Alone.

Oh, no... I'm sorry... that was on ONE DAY, in ONE SCHOOL. In ONE CITY.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/4 ... o-hospital

Bans work, tho'.

Guns are bad, mkay? 42 years ago, the State of NEW YORK had over EIGHTY school districts with gun clubs. These were sanctioned school activities with live ammunition fire on school premises. Presumably, the corridors must have been running streams of blood.

Nope.

I apologize for the NRO link: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/ ... c-w-cooke/

What this is, is a cultural problem. And it's not going to be solved by banning firearm ownership.

Quite honestly, Americans have some questions to answer, none of which have anything to do with guns... rather specifically on the topics of the sanctity of life, the nuclear family, and pharmaceuticals.
Not sure why you quoted my post and went off one a gun ban rant, but ok...

ETA: Hey, if you don't think school shootings are a problem, fine. I disagree. That doesn't mean it's the only problem, and it doesn't mean I think guns should be banned. As I stated last week, there's something different now (I think social media is a large part of it) than there used to be. That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.
Yeah, gee... I don't know why I quoted your post either. :lol:

School shootings aren't a problem, big picture. They're a symptom of societal decay. Were I to base my opinion upon what I see in major media, I would think that's an idea for dickheads and douchebags. Just spend a few minutes walking around in American social history and that narrative well and truly crumbles. Soooooo...

"Easy access to guns" is an adorable bumper sticker, but it has NOTHING to do with the world we're living in. They're far harder to get a hold of, and they're far less ubiquitous than they were 40-some years ago, as I stated in my last post. And yet "mass shootings" are more prevalent than they were then.

It just *might* be time for the American Left to take a good, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if some of the social policies they've pursued over the course of the past 60 years have been fruitful or not.

Or... ya know... teh gunz...

Whichever. For me, I don't really care what y'all do.

Guinness
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Postby Guinness » Fri May 25, 2018 4:27 pm

I haven't read about how this person got the guns, but did he have to do anything difficult to get the gun? It's usually, take them from a family member. Point is, the people who have done this, by and large, haven't had trouble getting the guns. To me, that goes to gun safety by gun owners and ease of obtaining guns.
Jeezus, 8 year olds used to carry rifles to school on a regular basis 50 years ago. How are you gonna make a coherent argument that "easy access to firearms" is operative here? You can't.

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Postby Guinness » Fri May 25, 2018 4:38 pm

This "ease of access to firearms is a contributing factor to mass shootings" is some legitimately simple stuff.

It's like people don't realize how freely and frequently firearms exchanged hands not even 25 years ago in this country.

Having grown up in a world where firearms were freely exchanged and fired without any intervention by "the authorities", this "ease of access to firearms" meme is just... funny.

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Postby dodint » Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 pm

That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.
This is incorrect. Have some data: https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/2 ... cher-says/

Your wxposure to it has likely increased thanks to new media, I will give you that. Very small chance even 20 years ago you hear about a shooting at a school with no fatalities, but here you are using it to try and prove a point.

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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 5:15 pm


Whichever. For me, I don't really care what y'all do.
You act (or write) differently.

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 5:23 pm

That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.
This is incorrect. Have some data: https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/2 ... cher-says/

Your wxposure to it has likely increased thanks to new media, I will give you that. Very small chance even 20 years ago you hear about a shooting at a school with no fatalities, but here you are using it to try and prove a point.
Thanks for the data. That’s interesting, and maybe it is a matter of more exposure. I’d like to look at the data going back even further.

The reason I see access as an issue is that it’s an easy way to express that anger, for lack of a better word. That access is on irresponsible gun owners. So while yes, guns have always been here, I believe there are more irresponsible owners. Or maybe if these shootings haven’t increased, there have just always been the same level of irresponsible gun owners. Kid goes off deep end. Kid wants to hurt a lot of people. Kid gets from family member and shoots. But maybe there are more instances of mass casualties where other means are used in these situations?

Guinness, while you always want to say how simple everyone else is, you are the one who makes everyone out as simple. You grasp on to one point of an argument and ignore everything else. So as much as I say that the biggest issue is probably social media, in combination of many other societal aspects, all you can respond with is “teh guns” because the word gun was typed.

Guinness
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Postby Guinness » Fri May 25, 2018 6:32 pm

That, combined with easy access to guns, has created more of these school shootings.
This is incorrect. Have some data: https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/2 ... cher-says/

Your wxposure to it has likely increased thanks to new media, I will give you that. Very small chance even 20 years ago you hear about a shooting at a school with no fatalities, but here you are using it to try and prove a point.
Thanks for the data. That’s interesting, and maybe it is a matter of more exposure. I’d like to look at the data going back even further.

The reason I see access as an issue is that it’s an easy way to express that anger, for lack of a better word. That access is on irresponsible gun owners. So while yes, guns have always been here...
I believe there are more irresponsible owners.
There is zero data to support this position. The fact is that there are more regulations on firearm ownership now than there has ever been in American history. Background checks are more ubiquitous, and more stringent, than they were even 20 years ago. Regulations on the types of firearms, and the accessories which accompany them, are more rigid than they were just 20 years ago.

If you want to suggest that more people suck today than they did, arbitrarily, 20 years ago... I won't dispute that. But that doesn't have anything to do with firearms. That has to do with people sucking and a general crappy society. Which is exactly the point I'm making.
Or maybe if these shootings haven’t increased, there have just always been the same level of irresponsible gun owners. Kid goes off deep end. Kid wants to hurt a lot of people. Kid gets from family member and shoots. But maybe there are more instances of mass casualties where other means are used in these situations?
Hmmm... no... I'm pretty sure the data supports that "mass shootings" are more of thing "today" than they were "back in the day". If they're not, then we're not talking about anything. :shrug:
Guinness, while you always want to say how simple everyone else is, you are the one who makes everyone out as simple. You grasp on to one point of an argument and ignore everything else. So as much as I say that the biggest issue is probably social media, in combination of many other societal aspects, all you can respond with is “teh guns” because the word gun was typed.
Fact: guns were objectively commonly present in American schools up thru the 1960's. I posted an article illustrating that fact which no one has chosen to dispute. From that time (the 1960's) to present, the presence of firearms has decreased, and the frequency of "mass shootings" has increased. If the problem were the mere presence of firearms, one would logically presume that this relationship would be inverse. It is not.

Thus it is not I who is making some kind of simplistic argument; it is the so-called "Left", who hold that eliminating firearms would somehow result in a reduction of killing. This is an absurdity in the face of facts as presented.

AGAIN, what we're dealing with is NOT a firearms problem. It is rather CLEARLY a social problem.

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Postby MWB » Fri May 25, 2018 7:31 pm

So as much as I say that the biggest issue is probably social media, in combination of many other societal aspects, all you can respond with is “teh guns” because the word gun was typed.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri May 25, 2018 8:00 pm

To use @shmenguin 's favorite word it is a bit disingenuous to act like the actual conversation in real life is not centered around teh gunz.

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Postby Willie Kool » Fri May 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Thus it is not I who is making some kind of simplistic argument; it is the so-called "Left", who hold that eliminating firearms would somehow result in a reduction of killing.
Please stop with the generalizations that the 'Left' is anti-gun. Most of the politicians that push this are economic centrists at best.

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Postby Shyster » Fri May 25, 2018 8:28 pm

You know you want more Remy:


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Postby Trip McNeely » Fri May 25, 2018 8:57 pm

Chicago Police have every right to legally protest against the mayor and an administration that just won’t let them do their job. The killings are at a record pace and tough police work, which Chicago will not allow, would bring things back to order fast...the killings must stop!


Sooooooo...

NFL players right to protest, BAD

Cops right to protest..... HOORAY

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri May 25, 2018 10:31 pm

I have no desire to support the NFL but the problem is not protest the players are free to protest anytime they want just not for the minute and a half of the national anthem.

Besides they still have the right to protest during the national anthem as anyone who is not present on the sidelines will be widely understood to be protesting by their absence.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Fri May 25, 2018 10:36 pm

Wouldn't the easiest solution to be to have all cameras focused on the flag during the anthem? I mean, if we're supposed to be paying attention to the anthem, why even show the players? Let the audience focus on their own patriotism.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri May 25, 2018 10:52 pm

Well I don't even know why we have the anthem before sporting events it makes no logical sense to me.

I mean I know where it came from and why it uniquely survived in United States, but that is another discussion.

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