Politics And Current Events

dodint
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Postby dodint » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:38 am

The Supreme Court ruled on Friday in Carpenter v. United States that the acquisition of cell-site data is a Fourth Amendment search.

This is a major privacy ruling that indicates perhaps maybe kind of the Court is dragging itself into the 20th century wrt tech and privacy. I mean, we're two decades into the 21st century, but I'll take what I can get.
I'll have to read the opinion in a bit but that's shocking to me. You can barely get 4A protection in the curtilage of your home but they'll extend it to cell tower data? Interesting.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:40 am

I mean, the 1951 Refugee Convention is a wonderful and noble thing, until it actually has to be put into full practice. We are witnessing migration out of the global South at a higher rate than at any time in history. Northern democracies are going to be completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of people fleeing shtholes (yes, shtholes) like sub-Saharan Africa, many parts of Central and South America, India, the M.E., etc. I can safely tell you that the organizers and ratifiers in 1951 did not predict the growth of Islam and associated violence, MS-13 and other Latino gangs, Hutus and Tutsis and other tribal violence in Africa, the abject overpopulation and filth in India, etc, and the effect of all of those things would have to make the number of migrants absolutely skyrocket in the 21st century.

What do we all think the end game is? It's easy to pontificate about America's legal and moral obligation to accept every single person coming to the border, and grant them citizenship and all the rights contained therein. Are there people that don't think this will lead to the long-term economic and societal ruin of the West? If your opinion is that it's our obligation and whatever happens happens, then I guess I at least respect your honesty.

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Postby grunthy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:15 pm


NailedPenguin
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Postby NailedPenguin » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Are there people that don't think this will lead to the long-term economic and societal ruin of the West? If your opinion is that it's our obligation and whatever happens happens, then I guess I at least respect your honesty.

From what I gather thats just whitey getting whats coming to them. It doesn't matter how many times that point is made or how rational it is, it'll always boil down to "something something scared, something something brown people." It's a losing argument.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:42 pm

"Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade on Friday defended President Trump's "zero tolerance" approach to migrants that illegally cross the U.S.-Mexico border, saying "these aren't our kids" being detained separately while their parents face legal prosecution.

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that people are treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."

His fellow host, Ainsley Earhardt, responded by saying that Trump "just wants to make sure we vet who's coming across the border, in case it's MS-13 or drugs."

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Postby PFiDC » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:52 pm

"Fox & Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade on Friday defended President Trump's "zero tolerance" approach to migrants that illegally cross the U.S.-Mexico border, saying "these aren't our kids" being detained separately while their parents face legal prosecution.

"Like it or not, these are not our kids," he said. "Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country."

Kilmeade argued that people are treating migrant children as if they are more important than "people in our country who pay taxes and have needs as well."

His fellow host, Ainsley Earhardt, responded by saying that Trump "just wants to make sure we vet who's coming across the border, in case it's MS-13 or drugs."
Not giving 2 shits about another country's people has been standard US policy for at least 70 years.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:04 pm

Can you give me an example of a non-Western European country that could not be said of?

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:19 pm

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06 ... eby-video/
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Police are currently reviewing video which reportedly shows Antwon Rose firing a gun during a drive-by shooting just minutes before he was shot and killed by police officer Michael Rosfeld.

...

Police found two weapons inside the vehicle, but none on Rose’s person. However, sources say Rose had a magazine in his pocket. It is unclear if the magazine was empty or not.

Sources also say gun residue was found on Rose’s hand.
Throw a pity party for a 17 year old that attempted murder 30 minutes earlier.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:25 pm

Obviously that's all made up and staged by the police.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:31 pm

KDKA just said that Allegheny County denied the video exists. They didn't deny the residue report.

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Postby Shyster » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:23 pm

If so, this is of course an absurdity and patently unjust. Crossing an imaginary line isn't a "crime". But then again, this is the effectively no different than a situation which happens all too often throughout the rest of this country when a parent is found to be in possession of enough of a chemical or plant which the state deems verboten and CPS swoops in, "for the children". Yet, shockingly, no outrage there. And likewise in no doubt countless other scenarios...

Immigration is one of the issues where I will admit that I struggle with the libertarian position, which supports open (or no) borders and free movement of people. The real-world problem with that position is that is presupposes a society that otherwise abides by libertarian principles, such as those people not being able to make claims (whether directly or through a government) on someone else's money or property. If someone crossing an arbitrary line on a map border has no ability to demand anything from me, then I don't care what they do or where they go. But we don't live in a libertarian country; we live in a welfare state wherein those people—through the government—absolutely do make claims on my money and property in the form of taxes. "Illegal" immigration is only a problem for a welfare state. Since that's what we have, who crosses the border and how many cross the border absolutely does matter to me. I wish it didn't, but it does.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:04 pm

If so, this is of course an absurdity and patently unjust. Crossing an imaginary line isn't a "crime". But then again, this is the effectively no different than a situation which happens all too often throughout the rest of this country when a parent is found to be in possession of enough of a chemical or plant which the state deems verboten and CPS swoops in, "for the children". Yet, shockingly, no outrage there. And likewise in no doubt countless other scenarios...

Immigration is one of the issues where I will admit that I struggle with the libertarian position, which supports open (or no) borders and free movement of people. The real-world problem with that position is that is presupposes a society that otherwise abides by libertarian principles, such as those people not being able to make claims (whether directly or through a government) on someone else's money or property. If someone crossing an arbitrary line on a map border has no ability to demand anything from me, then I don't care what they do or where they go. But we don't live in a libertarian country; we live in a welfare state wherein those people—through the government—absolutely do make claims on my money and property in the form of taxes. "Illegal" immigration is only a problem for a welfare state. Since that's what we have, who crosses the border and how many cross the border absolutely does matter to me. I wish it didn't, but it does.
:thumb:

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:11 pm

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06 ... eby-video/
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Police are currently reviewing video which reportedly shows Antwon Rose firing a gun during a drive-by shooting just minutes before he was shot and killed by police officer Michael Rosfeld.

...

Police found two weapons inside the vehicle, but none on Rose’s person. However, sources say Rose had a magazine in his pocket. It is unclear if the magazine was empty or not.

Sources also say gun residue was found on Rose’s hand.
Throw a pity party for a 17 year old that attempted murder 30 minutes earlier.
Something something "he was just a good kid that went to church, he was going to go to college to study pre-med, that's very unlike him I can't imagine that's him in the video", etc.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:13 pm

Can you give me an example of a non-Western European country that could not be said of?
lol, thank you. I know it's trendy now to talk about how self-centered/selfish/arrogant America is, but caring most about our citizens is hardly a uniquely American thing.

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Postby Kaiser » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:26 pm

It's hardly American, you mean

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Postby MR25 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:03 pm

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/06 ... eby-video/
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Police are currently reviewing video which reportedly shows Antwon Rose firing a gun during a drive-by shooting just minutes before he was shot and killed by police officer Michael Rosfeld.

...

Police found two weapons inside the vehicle, but none on Rose’s person. However, sources say Rose had a magazine in his pocket. It is unclear if the magazine was empty or not.

Sources also say gun residue was found on Rose’s hand.
Throw a pity party for a 17 year old that attempted murder 30 minutes earlier.
Something something "he was just a good kid that went to church, he was going to go to college to study pre-med, that's very unlike him I can't imagine that's him in the video", etc.

Allegheny County officials released a statement saying the above information is false.

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Postby MWB » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Quick, everyone (media especially), jump to conclusions. Go!

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Postby Guinness » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:12 pm

If so, this is of course an absurdity and patently unjust. Crossing an imaginary line isn't a "crime". But then again, this is the effectively no different than a situation which happens all too often throughout the rest of this country when a parent is found to be in possession of enough of a chemical or plant which the state deems verboten and CPS swoops in, "for the children". Yet, shockingly, no outrage there. And likewise in no doubt countless other scenarios...

Immigration is one of the issues where I will admit that I struggle with the libertarian position, which supports open (or no) borders and free movement of people. The real-world problem with that position is that is presupposes a society that otherwise abides by libertarian principles, such as those people not being able to make claims (whether directly or through a government) on someone else's money or property. If someone crossing an arbitrary line on a map border has no ability to demand anything from me, then I don't care what they do or where they go. But we don't live in a libertarian country; we live in a welfare state wherein those people—through the government—absolutely do make claims on my money and property in the form of taxes. "Illegal" immigration is only a problem for a welfare state. Since that's what we have, who crosses the border and how many cross the border absolutely does matter to me. I wish it didn't, but it does.
:thumb:
In practical terms, I don't disagree at all.

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Postby Guinness » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:15 pm

Something something "he was just a good kid that went to church, he was going to go to college to study pre-med, that's very unlike him I can't imagine that's him in the video", etc.
Whether he was a choir boy or a suspected murderer, it's not the job of the police to be judge/jury/executioner. He was shot and killed while fleeing. There's no way that cop could have known why he was fleeing... he could have had a bag of weed in his pocket for all he knew at that moment.

I drove through that protest yesterday on my way out of town. Had I known the circumstances, I would have stopped and lent my voice to the crowd.

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Postby MWB » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:58 pm

Your moral superiority would’ve been a welcome beacon of light to all present.

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Postby Guinness » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:01 pm

:lol:

dodint
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Postby dodint » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:29 pm

Trump held an event where he had families of people murdered by undocumented immigrants to tout the border wall, etc. People had pictures of their murdered loved ones, so he autographed them.

Image

Dickie Dunn
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Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:07 pm

I hope he does the same for people murdered by US citizens.

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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:38 pm

I hope he does the same for people murdered by US citizens.
Obviously that won't happen, and it all comes back to what demographic the politician is playing to. Remember Obama's cringeworthy "acting stupidly" comment? Of course he never did that for a white person that was similarly abused by police. All about target audiences.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:23 pm

Remember the 8 month old baby in Gaza the IDF killed -- the tearjerker front page stories in @nytimes, @latimes, etc? As usual, it wasn't true. Hamas paid off the family to say the baby was killed. There will be no NYT stories correcting the record.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NoahPollak/s ... 5590209536

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