Politics And Current Events

[shmenguin]

The author accurately describes that rifle cartridges are more powerful than handguns. That is a "no duh" assertion. There is no question that rifles are more powerful. But the author of that article also asserts that "AR-15 or other high-velocity weapons, especially when outfitted with a high-capacity magazine, have no place in a civilian’s gun cabinet." That is a demonstrably false claim. Banning anything as or more powerful than the .223 Remington would ban probably something like 90% of all rifle cartridges in existence, including those that are most suitable to hunting. It would outlaw the rifles that the vast majority of hunters in this country use for game such as antelope, wild sheep, deer, elk, moose, and bear.

this makes sense.

the practical issue, then, becomes not that a person can fire one of these rounds. it's that they can fire these rounds in quick succession. so back to the bigger issue - where we need to completely ban semi automatic rifles for consumer sale.

wouldn't mind a compromise, though. a ban is the simplest solution, but if you have something else in mind that reliably prevents a school shooter from firing more than one round every 10 seconds or so, that would cover it.

and yes - i am applying this to all types of semi automatics. not just rifles.

[MWB]

"Guards don't love the children"

Cheeto is thunderously stupid, and I am now more stupid for having listened to him say that.

"A security guard doesn't know the children, doesn't love the children," Trump said. "This man standing outside of the school the other day doesn't love the children, probably doesn't know the children. The teachers love their children. They love their pupils. They love their students. They're doing it also for love."

The full quote, just because...
I don't love the kids I teach. I care about them. The SRO's that I know also care about the children. And they also know a lot more of the kids than I know. They make connections with the kids, and usually know the "at-risk" kids better than I do.

[tifosi77]

Which makes complete sense to me, as the SROs may have reason to....... 'interact'...... with the problem kids outside of school.

[columbia]

NBC Politics
NBC Politics
@NBCPolitics
Replying to @NBCPolitics and @Tom_Winter
JUST IN: Former Trump campaign official Rick Gates has plead guilty to charges of Conspiracy against the United States and charge of making a false statement.

Note the phrase “conspiracy against.”

[MWB]

Is this article emotional or scientific? It’s giving out a lot of good information but it’s also outlining how vile semi automatic rifles are. Must be emotional then.

Not emotional, but uninformed.

There is no such thing as an "AR-15 bullet." The most common (but not only) chambering for the AR-15 is the 5.56×45mm NATO, which goes by the commercial name of .223 Remington (there are very minor differences between the two, but for the purpose of this discussion they are essentially the same round). It is chambered in far more than just semi-auto rifles; the .223 Remington is available in bolt-action, single-shot, and even lever-action rifles. Such as rifle cartridges go, the .223 Remington is on the low end of the power scale, and for the most part it has long been considered a varmint and small-game round. In some states it is not legal for hunting deer-sized or larger game because it is considered insufficiently powerful. And as those laws would indicate, the .223 is indeed vastly outclassed in both range and power by common deer cartridges such as the 243 Win, .270 Win., .308 Win, .30-06, and even the hoary 120-year-old .30-30 Win. A .223 firing a 55-grain bullet produces about 1,300 ft-lbs of energy; your great-grandpa's old Winchester .30-30 firing a 150-grain bullet (nearly three times as heavy) can produce roughly 1,900 ft⋅lbs of energy. And many hunters wouldn't consider the .30-30 to cut the mustard for even larger game like moose or elk. For those, something like a .300 Win. Mag. can produce nearly 4,000 ft-lbs of energy from a 180-grain bullet.

The author accurately describes that rifle cartridges are more powerful than handguns. That is a "no duh" assertion. There is no question that rifles are more powerful. But the author of that article also asserts that "AR-15 or other high-velocity weapons, especially when outfitted with a high-capacity magazine, have no place in a civilian’s gun cabinet." That is a demonstrably false claim. Banning anything as or more powerful than the .223 Remington would ban probably something like 90% of all rifle cartridges in existence, including those that are most suitable to hunting. It would outlaw the rifles that the vast majority of hunters in this country use for game such as antelope, wild sheep, deer, elk, moose, and bear.

Does high capacity mean that it can fire at a higher rate? If so, why is a high capacity, high power rifle needed? Would this combination be needed for hunting? These are sincere questions, as I don't know the answers.

[tifosi77]

School Resource Officer Who Failed to Confront Mass Shooter Previously Defended Cops Living at School Rent-Free

Scot Peterson, the 54-year-old Marjory Stoneman Douglas school resource officer who resigned after security footage revealed he made no effort to engage alleged mass killer Nikolas Cruz during the rampage last week, previously lobbied Broward County school officials to continue funding a program that allowed cops to live in mobile homes on school property rent-free.

Not only did Peterson fail to confront Cruz—he also failed to assist a previous investigation, undertaken by state authorities, to determine whether Cruz was a threat to himself or others. His mistakes compound the errors made by other law enforcement entities, including the FBI and Broward County PD.

[shmenguin]

Is this article emotional or scientific? It’s giving out a lot of good information but it’s also outlining how vile semi automatic rifles are. Must be emotional then.

Not emotional, but uninformed.

There is no such thing as an "AR-15 bullet." The most common (but not only) chambering for the AR-15 is the 5.56×45mm NATO, which goes by the commercial name of .223 Remington (there are very minor differences between the two, but for the purpose of this discussion they are essentially the same round). It is chambered in far more than just semi-auto rifles; the .223 Remington is available in bolt-action, single-shot, and even lever-action rifles. Such as rifle cartridges go, the .223 Remington is on the low end of the power scale, and for the most part it has long been considered a varmint and small-game round. In some states it is not legal for hunting deer-sized or larger game because it is considered insufficiently powerful. And as those laws would indicate, the .223 is indeed vastly outclassed in both range and power by common deer cartridges such as the 243 Win, .270 Win., .308 Win, .30-06, and even the hoary 120-year-old .30-30 Win. A .223 firing a 55-grain bullet produces about 1,300 ft-lbs of energy; your great-grandpa's old Winchester .30-30 firing a 150-grain bullet (nearly three times as heavy) can produce roughly 1,900 ft⋅lbs of energy. And many hunters wouldn't consider the .30-30 to cut the mustard for even larger game like moose or elk. For those, something like a .300 Win. Mag. can produce nearly 4,000 ft-lbs of energy from a 180-grain bullet.

The author accurately describes that rifle cartridges are more powerful than handguns. That is a "no duh" assertion. There is no question that rifles are more powerful. But the author of that article also asserts that "AR-15 or other high-velocity weapons, especially when outfitted with a high-capacity magazine, have no place in a civilian’s gun cabinet." That is a demonstrably false claim. Banning anything as or more powerful than the .223 Remington would ban probably something like 90% of all rifle cartridges in existence, including those that are most suitable to hunting. It would outlaw the rifles that the vast majority of hunters in this country use for game such as antelope, wild sheep, deer, elk, moose, and bear.

Does high capacity mean that it can fire at a higher rate? If so, why is a high capacity, high power rifle needed? Would this combination be needed for hunting? These are sincere questions, as I don't know the answers.

my impression of hunting is that you patiently position yourself for one shot. and after that shot, you're f'd if you miss because that animal is gonzo. this might only be for certain type of game, i suppose. and i've also never hunted (doi), so there's that.

i'd also be curious why there would be any resistance whatsoever to an outright ban of bump stocks. can't link that ish to the constitution.

[shmenguin]

School Resource Officer Who Failed to Confront Mass Shooter Previously Defended Cops Living at School Rent-Free

Scot Peterson, the 54-year-old Marjory Stoneman Douglas school resource officer who resigned after security footage revealed he made no effort to engage alleged mass killer Nikolas Cruz during the rampage last week, previously lobbied Broward County school officials to continue funding a program that allowed cops to live in mobile homes on school property rent-free.

Not only did Peterson fail to confront Cruz—he also failed to assist a previous investigation, undertaken by state authorities, to determine whether Cruz was a threat to himself or others. His mistakes compound the errors made by other law enforcement entities, including the FBI and Broward County PD.

r/floridaman

[Shyster]

wouldn't mind a compromise, though. a ban is the simplest solution, but if you have something else in mind that reliably prevents a school shooter from firing more than one round every 10 seconds or so, that would cover it.

A ban on any rifle that can fire "more than one round every 10 seconds or so" would also ban the vast majority of hunting rifles, including bolt-action, pump-action, and great-grandpa's lever action. Even a plain-Jane bolt-action rifle can fire a lot faster than that. See, e,g.,

http://youtu.be/2tuBJtqbm9A?t=1m29s

Note how quickly he loads the last three rounds. One can fire a single-shot rifle a lot faster than once every 10 seconds.

One of the reasons so many gun owners have problems with proposals for gun control is that it quickly becomes obvious that the proposers have no idea how guns work (or are feigning ignorance).

[shmenguin]

wouldn't mind a compromise, though. a ban is the simplest solution, but if you have something else in mind that reliably prevents a school shooter from firing more than one round every 10 seconds or so, that would cover it.

A ban on any rifle that can fire "more than one round every 10 seconds or so" would also ban the vast majority of hunting rifles, including bolt-action, pump-action, and great-grandpa's lever action. Even a plain-Jane bolt-action rifle can fire a lot faster than that. See, e,g.,

http://youtu.be/2tuBJtqbm9A?t=1m29s

Note how quickly he loads the last three rounds. One can fire a single-shot rifle a lot faster than once every 10 seconds.

One of the reasons so many gun owners have problems with proposals for gun control is that it quickly becomes obvious that the proposers have no idea how guns work (or are feigning ignorance).

it wasn't obvious i was referring to semi automatics?

speaking of feigning ignorance...

[Shyster]

it wasn't obvious i was referring to semi automatics?

speaking of feigning ignorance...

No, it wasn't. There is no way to limit a semi-automatic action to one shot every 10 seconds, unless you put in a timer mechanism or something along those lines. And what sense would it make to do so if you could fire other guns faster than that?

[Shyster]

Does high capacity mean that it can fire at a higher rate?

No. "High capacity" is presumably a reference to magazine size, not rate of fire.

[MWB]

What is the practical need for a high powered, high capacity gun that can fire at a high rate? Are these needed for effective hunting? Or some other reason?

[shmenguin]

it wasn't obvious i was referring to semi automatics?

speaking of feigning ignorance...

No, it wasn't. There is no way to limit a semi-automatic action to one shot every 10 seconds, unless you put in a timer mechanism or something along those lines. And what sense would it make to do so if you could fire other guns faster than that?

the timer mechanism was sort of where i was going. build it into the gun. build it into the magazine. wherever. but i know that there is an aversion to applying a technology-based overlay to restrict your weapon use. i imagine fingerprint readers would already be in place if there wasn't.

you could post youtube clips of guys firing faster than that. but if you remove semi-automatic rifles from an inexperienced shooter's hands, then yes - i believe there will be less death and they will struggle to get as many rounds off at that caliber. the "10 second rule" would be applied to all semi autos, btw.

[Shyster]

you could post youtube clips of guys firing faster than that. but if you remove semi-automatic rifles from an inexperienced shooter's hands, then yes - i believe there will be less death and they will struggle to get as many rounds off at that caliber. the "10 second rule" would be applied to all semi autos, btw.

Again, what sense does it make to limit semi-autos like that when a pump or lever-action rifle could be fired much faster than that?

[shmenguin]

you could post youtube clips of guys firing faster than that. but if you remove semi-automatic rifles from an inexperienced shooter's hands, then yes - i believe there will be less death and they will struggle to get as many rounds off at that caliber. the "10 second rule" would be applied to all semi autos, btw.

Again, what sense does it make to limit semi-autos like that when a pump or lever-action rifle could be fired much faster than that?

why aren't these shooters using a pump or lever action rifle if it's equally possible?

[grunthy]

you could post youtube clips of guys firing faster than that. but if you remove semi-automatic rifles from an inexperienced shooter's hands, then yes - i believe there will be less death and they will struggle to get as many rounds off at that caliber. the "10 second rule" would be applied to all semi autos, btw.

Again, what sense does it make to limit semi-autos like that when a pump or lever-action rifle could be fired much faster than that?

why aren't these shooters using a pump or lever action rifle if it's equally possible?

Bc AR-15s are cool.

[Shyster]

why aren't these shooters using a pump or lever action rifle if it's equally possible?

A semi-auto can indeed fire faster than those other types. I'm not disputing that. I'm just asking how your "limit semi-autos to one shot every 10 seconds" proposal would actually accomplish anything when any would-be shooter at that point would clearly just switch to a bolt, pump, or lever rifle. It would be like banning two-door cars from being able to drive more than 10 mph, but four-door cars are not limited. What sense does it make?

[NailedPenguin]

Kid just wants an honest dialogue on gun reform.

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status ... 2490848258

David Hogg ‏Verified account
@davidhogg111

@realDonaldTrump @marcorubio @FLGovScott You guys either come to the town hall or sit back like the child murdering cowards you are

For the record, this is the same kid I think is a manipulative little sht. How is this defensible? Does anyone actually believe he thinks this?

I watched about 5 minutes of that "town hall" last night. That was hideous, ugly television.

This clown is full blown activist. Don't tell me this is all him. Twitter up to 200K, complete with professionally shot mean mug avatar photo. Demanding all these companies do what he says and he's got people eating out of the palm of his hand. He's got scam artist written all over him just like most of the other social media crusaders that liberals prop up as heroes.

And before anybody starts, he's already called everybody else child killers so I think he can handle my hockey message board criticism. No need to come to his rescue here.

[shmenguin]

why aren't these shooters using a pump or lever action rifle if it's equally possible?

A semi-auto can indeed fire faster than those other types. I'm not disputing that. I'm just asking how your "limit semi-autos to one shot every 10 seconds" proposal would actually accomplish anything when any would-be shooter at that point would clearly just switch to a bolt, pump, or lever rifle. It would be like banning two-door cars from being able to drive more than 10 mph, but four-door cars are not limited. What sense does it make?

i'm not following. if a semi auto "can indeed fire faster", i'm interpreting that as it would indeed fire faster in the hands of cruz, lanza, etc. so is your question what sense does it make to restrict the rate an inexperienced shooter can fire bullets?

[shmenguin]

Kid just wants an honest dialogue on gun reform.

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status ... 2490848258

David Hogg ‏Verified account
@davidhogg111

@realDonaldTrump @marcorubio @FLGovScott You guys either come to the town hall or sit back like the child murdering cowards you are

For the record, this is the same kid I think is a manipulative little sht. How is this defensible? Does anyone actually believe he thinks this?

I watched about 5 minutes of that "town hall" last night. That was hideous, ugly television.

This clown is full blown activist. Don't tell me this is all him. Twitter up to 200K, complete with professionally shot mean mug avatar photo. Demanding all these companies do what he says and he's got people eating out of the palm of his hand. He's got scam artist written all over him just like most of the other social media crusaders that liberals prop up as heroes.

And before anybody starts, he's already called everybody else child killers so I think he can handle my hockey message board criticism. No need to come to his rescue here.

your assertion here is that he's capitalizing AND he doesn't actually care about this. the former, sure. but "scam artist"...good luck with that.

[MR25]

He's a kid, who watched his friends/classmates get murdered. He should be angry.

It also appears that he's good at social media. I'm not sure that being one means you can't be the other.

[Shyster]

i'm not following. if a semi auto "can indeed fire faster", i'm interpreting that as it would indeed fire faster in the hands of cruz, lanza, etc. so is your question what sense does it make to restrict the rate an inexperienced shooter can fire bullets?

You denied that you want to apply your "10 seconds" rule to all types of guns. You said it would apply only to semi-automatic guns. Okay. Let's say that all semi-autos now take 10 seconds between shots. But the same would-be shooter could get off shots almost as fast using a pump gun. What sense does your "10 seconds" rule make in that context?

[Freddy Rumsen]

It's almost like there's less cost and trouble providing Broadband access in a place the size of New Jersey versus a continent-size country where a large part of it is not the most easily accessible geography in the world.

I live in an area 35 miles Southwest of Charlotte North Carolina and my only internet access is through satellite or a Verizon hotspot.

Intended or not, you have done an effective job contradicting your own point.

The area Iive in is pretty rural. It makes no economic sense to run lines out this way.

[shmenguin]

i'm not following. if a semi auto "can indeed fire faster", i'm interpreting that as it would indeed fire faster in the hands of cruz, lanza, etc. so is your question what sense does it make to restrict the rate an inexperienced shooter can fire bullets?

You denied that you want to apply your "10 seconds" rule to all types of guns. You said it would apply only to semi-automatic guns. Okay. Let's say that all semi-autos now take 10 seconds between shots. But the same would-be shooter could get off shots almost as fast using a pump gun. What sense does your "10 seconds" rule make in that context?

step back for a second. the purpose is to decrease the overall number of bullets fired and the rate at which they would be fired. imposing a timer rule, whatever it is (10 seconds...20...60), would achieve this, no? Maybe it would depend on the interval. I wouldn't know what that specific interval should be. 10 seconds was a placeholder.