Politics And Current Events

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:30 am

With John McCain gone, it looks like Lindsey Graham is working even harder to press the neocon "never met a country I don't want to bomb" agenda.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lindse ... refineries
Can't wait to hear how Iran shooting down a drone is a precipice for war.

Is there any doubt that Bolton and Pompeo are goading Iran into doing something that would get a majority of GOP support for war?

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:14 pm

That's all I ask. Thank you.
The police earning the hate thread has 215 posts. Even if they represented 215 individual acts of police being very bad at their job, that's out of 700k law enforcement officers.
Hey man....in fairness, 98% of those posts are Shyster.

I have a huge respect for police officers, and I always treat any that I see with kindness and that same respect. Blindly trusting authority is never a good idea, but if someone encounters a police officer in the street, I would hope they would act respectfully.

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Conversely, on the other end of the spectrum, firefighters are some of the best people I know. Isn't it interesting how that profession attracts a different type of person?

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:31 pm

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... ictim.html
Black people don’t need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal justice system. We need affordable health care. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery...

Reparations by definition are only given to victims, so the moment you give me reparations, you’ve made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, you’ve made 1/3 of black Americans who poll against reparations into victims without their consent, and black Americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner.
Well said. You want to drive a deep wedge between black people and (especially) poor white people even further? Because reparations seems like a great way to do that.
People who bang the 'get over it, it was a long time ago' drum really need to pump their brakes. We live in a country where there are people who lived under the yoke of Jim Crow. Mrs Tif was born into a USA where it was still illegal for blacks and whites to marry in six or seven states. We are still in a reality where we can expect someone to have the tag appended to their name "the first African American to do 'xxxx'" for a fairly wide range of endeavors. The nakedly racist codified racism that was practiced in this country is barely a generation removed from tomorrow's sunrise.

That said, the whole idea of reparations is, bluntly, stupid. The time for that discussion was 150 years ago, when both the most aggrieved recipients and enthusiastic perpetrators of the harm for which repair is sought were alive. That's not to say I don't recognize the lasting effects of the actions that took a century to stamp out (see above). But come on.
Last edited by tifosi77 on Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eddy
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Postby eddy » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:35 pm

With John McCain gone, it looks like Lindsey Graham is working even harder to press the neocon "never met a country I don't want to bomb" agenda.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lindse ... refineries
Can't wait to hear how Iran shooting down a drone is a precipice for war.

Is there any doubt that Bolton and Pompeo are goading Iran into doing something that would get a majority of GOP support for war?
guess who is pumped?
Image

eddy
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Postby eddy » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:39 pm

A frustrated Trump believed that national security adviser John Bolton and his director for Latin American policy, Mauricio Claver-Carone, “got played” by both the opposition and key Maduro officials, two senior administration officials said. As the president “chewed out the staff” in a meeting shortly after the April 30 failure, in the words of one former Trump official involved in Venezuela policy, he mused that he might need to get on the phone himself to get something done.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 5535985a5f

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:51 pm

Can't wait to hear how Iran shooting down a drone is a precipice for war.

Is there any doubt that Bolton and Pompeo are goading Iran into doing something that would get a majority of GOP support for war?

I'd enjoy being the Iranian government spokesperson responding to this incident. "Oh, you say your drone was in international airspace? Well, we disagree. And, hey, it could have been worse. It's not like we shot down a civilian airliner and killed 290 men, women, and children."

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:56 pm

Can't wait to hear how Iran shooting down a drone is a precipice for war.

Is there any doubt that Bolton and Pompeo are goading Iran into doing something that would get a majority of GOP support for war?

I'd enjoy being the Iranian government spokesperson responding to this incident. "Oh, you say your drone was in international airspace? Well, we disagree. And, hey, it could have been worse. It's not like we shot down a civilian airliner and killed 290 men, women, and children."
This was also two weeks ago. When the US didn't get the jump they'd hope they get with the last "attack" they'd use this to try and fill the void.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:05 pm

I think most cops are decent people trying to do their best, but the notion that the job doesn't also attract power hungry dadholes is naive at best. There is not a preponderance of cops who are racist, but there are more than there should be. There is not a preponderance of cops who think their badge and gun give them the right to treat citizens (of all races) like crap, but there are more than there should be. There is not a preponderance of cops who shoot first and worry about the consequences (in the rare instance that there are any) later, but there are more than there should be.
The way I look at it: If you are a racist who is pre-disposed to violence, there are a very select few occupations that are open to you where you can get paid to be a violent racist. Does that mean all violent racists become cops? Or that only violent racists become cops? Of course not. But it does mean there is an over-representation of that sub-group in the police world than in the larger population. And a big part of why that 'police earning the hate' thread gets traction is because there is a knee-jerk reaction by the Thin Blue Line to rally around the bad apples; I wonder how many of the body cam videos shared in that thread straight up do not match the accounts of the incident in the paperwork. If you are a good apple who remains silent in the face of a bad apple, you are also a bad apple. My FIL tells stories of how he ultimately got out of police work shortly after his sheriff department stood up a SWAT team. As county sheriff, the team was under his command, and as a military combat vet he approached it with that sort of disciplined mindest. But to his not insubstantial alarm, he found that nearly all the other guys who applied to the team were absolute yahoos who looked at training as an excuse to do 'cop rolls' out of moving vehicles. And remember, as a SWAT team these guys were establish LEOs.

And it can also be a chicken-egg thing. You may go in as a do-gooder, and after a time of seeing nothing but minorities at their absolute worst (cops aren't typically called to respond to something good happening), that tends to shade how you see that world.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:12 pm

But we're commenting on an article that says 72 officers out of 3500 were put on desk duty. That's an absurdly low number if you look at how many possibly offensive memes flood my facebook timeline.
Let's shift this a bit. Take a random population of 3500 accountants. What do you think would be an expected number of them who would be subjected to discipline for racist or otherwise offensive social media conduct? Two? Five?

The reason why it's a big deal when any non-zero number cops are subjected to this kind of discipline is because accountants aren't charged with the ability to kill with the power and legitimacy of the state behind their name. That authority carries with it an implicit higher scrutiny and expectation of how their conduct is evaluated. And that is why the "I was scared" defense in a use-of-force incident is so palpably silly to me.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 pm

The reason why it's a big deal when any non-zero number cops are subjected to this kind of discipline is because accountants aren't charged with the ability to kill with the power and legitimacy of the state behind their name. That authority carries with it an implicit higher scrutiny and expectation of how their conduct is evaluated. And that is why the "I was scared" defense in a use-of-force incident is so palpably silly to me.
This is where I come from too. Cops are held to a higher standard because the literally have the power to kill people, usually with few repercussions, if they go off the rails. Is racism/hate/violence a bad thing in every profession? Absolutely. But it's much more dangerous when the profession involves carrying a gun and is forcing such people to deal with society's worst on a daily basis.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:21 pm

Conversely, on the other end of the spectrum, firefighters are some of the best people I know. Isn't it interesting how that profession attracts a different type of person?
Being a firefighter, by definition, is a different type of personality. It's a profession where you are putting yourself at great prolonged risk of life and limb, with potentially no way of protecting yourself in kind. It's more of a 'we' thing than a 'me' thing.

(Much of firefighting (at least in terms of really big conflagrations) is about preventing the spread of the flames rather than extinguishing them outright.)

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:27 pm

But we're commenting on an article that says 72 officers out of 3500 were put on desk duty. That's an absurdly low number if you look at how many possibly offensive memes flood my facebook timeline.
Let's shift this a bit. Take a random population of 3500 accountants. What do you think would be an expected number of them who would be subjected to discipline for racist or otherwise offensive social media conduct? Two? Five?

The reason why it's a big deal when any non-zero number cops are subjected to this kind of discipline is because accountants aren't charged with the ability to kill with the power and legitimacy of the state behind their name. That authority carries with it an implicit higher scrutiny and expectation of how their conduct is evaluated. And that is why the "I was scared" defense in a use-of-force incident is so palpably silly to me.
Second paragraph, I'm down with. I understand and accept that law enforcement should be held to a higher standard.

First paragraph, again judging from my timeline and what some of the 72 were reprimanded for, your two or five is laughable. These weren't 72 people proclaiming love for the KKK, there a lot more innocuous posts being swept up in this. I've got probably 18 people in my timeline that have posted things more offensive from the right and at least 6 on the left.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:34 pm

Again, you can't have the former without accepting the context of the latter. Should those dozen or so people in your social media circle be subjected to workplace discipline for their statements? Maybe, maybe not. But cops have to be held to a higher standard, because it is implicit in their remit. Anything in their conduct that suggests bias should be held against them imo.

And this isn't an anti-cop or anti-LEO thing. This is about the greater good of protecting the integrity of the work they do. It's a low-hanging-fruit example, but OJ got off largely because one cop in an investigation that included probably three dozen law enforcement officials was shown to be a racist dadhole.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:15 pm

GOP county official stands by anti-LGBT comments: 'Gay people are offensive to me'
“Do you understand, though, how your words can be offensive to gay people or to anybody?” reporter Andrea Ramey asked Benson.

“And gay people are offensive to me. Do you understand that?” he replied.

“All gay people, just because they’re gay, are offensive to you?” Ramey then asked.

“They can be very offensive. All this beautiful rainbow stuff. When one of our presidents lit the White House with wonderful rainbow colors that offended me,” Benson said, noting how former President Obama had the pride flag displayed following the 2015 Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage.
“It’s not only the gays, the LBG-ABC whatever,” he said. “All groups have gotten just too strong, too powerful.”
Neat.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:18 pm

All this beautiful rainbow stuff is offensive. wat.

Factorial
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Postby Factorial » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:20 pm

"Stop pushing that gay stuff in my face!"

DigitalGypsy66
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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:25 pm

Also:
Cracker Barrel denied Tuesday that they are hosting an event for a church whose pastor called for the execution of LGBTQ people, saying it insists on “hospitality, not hate” in its stores.

Earlier this month, Grayson Fritts, a pastor at All Scripture Baptist Church in Tennessee, said in a sermon that LGBTQ people are “freaks” and “animals” who are “worthy of death.”

Twitter user Blake Kitterman tweeted, “Hey @CrackerBarrel, a terroristic group that endorses arresting and executing LGBTQ+ persons are hosting an event at your restaurant in my hometown, Cleveland, TN. Care to stop this?”

Kitterman also posted a photo of a Facebook event hosted by the church called “Small town soul winning Cleveland, TN.” The location of the event was listed as the address of a local Cracker Barrel in the picture.

The company denied they were “affiliated in any way with Mr. Fritts or All Scripture Baptist” and said they “disagree strongly with their statements of hate and divisiveness.”

“At Cracker Barrel, we work hard to foster a culture that is welcoming and inclusive — we have a zero-tolerance policy for discriminatory treatment or harassment of any sort,” the company shared in a statement on Twitter.

“We take pride in serving as a home away from home for all guests and in showing our communities and our country that the hospitality we practice is open to everyone,” it added.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... called-for

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:27 pm

Religious people are some of the most "non-religious-like" people I know. It's honestly more offensive that these people use their Christian beliefs to push on others, who are more likely to just live their lives without disrupting yours.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:29 pm

GOP county official stands by anti-LGBT comments: 'Gay people are offensive to me'
“Do you understand, though, how your words can be offensive to gay people or to anybody?” reporter Andrea Ramey asked Benson.

“And gay people are offensive to me. Do you understand that?” he replied.

“All gay people, just because they’re gay, are offensive to you?” Ramey then asked.

“They can be very offensive. All this beautiful rainbow stuff. When one of our presidents lit the White House with wonderful rainbow colors that offended me,” Benson said, noting how former President Obama had the pride flag displayed following the 2015 Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage.
“It’s not only the gays, the LBG-ABC whatever,” he said. “All groups have gotten just too strong, too powerful.”
Neat.
The fun part is guessing which of the 20 or so possible states would conceivably elect this person. And for those who went with Alabama - your safe bet paid off.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Iran just shot down one of the US military's most advanced drones — it costs more than an F-35 stealth fighter...
"The RQ-4 flies at upwards of 65,000 feet," Tyler Rogoway, the editor of The War Zone, wrote. "So this would have been a sophisticated radar-guided surface-to-air missile that shot the aircraft down, not a shoulder-fired, heat-seeking missile."

Iran said the IRGC shot down the US drone with an upgraded Khordad missile-defense system, which can detect and track targets 95 miles away and down them at a distance of 30 miles, Breaking Defense reported. The system can target enemy aircraft flying as high as 81,000 feet, or roughly 15 miles.

The Global Hawk does not have any stealth capabilities or high-end countermeasures for penetration missions, leaving it vulnerable to any air defense systems that can hit high-altitude targets.
So looks like Iran took the "bait."

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:32 pm

I've read something like the single most accurate predictor of Red-Blue voting trends for a county is the presence of a Cracker Barrel or a Whole Foods, and it's a decades long trend.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:33 pm

Iran just shot down one of the US military's most advanced drones — it costs more than an F-35 stealth fighter...
The only thing that 'costs' more than an F-35 is more F-35s.

:pop:

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:35 pm

Religious people are some of the most "non-religious-like" people I know. It's honestly more offensive that these people use their Christian beliefs to push on others, who are more likely to just live their lives without disrupting yours.
Sort of the opposite for me. I mean... they’re toxic for actual social progress or simply adopting new ideas past age 5. But the deists in my life are probably the most selfless people I know. They’re just huge weirdos who shouldn’t be consulted about anything of consequence.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:38 pm

Religious people are some of the most "non-religious-like" people I know. It's honestly more offensive that these people use their Christian beliefs to push on others, who are more likely to just live their lives without disrupting yours.
Sort of the opposite for me. I mean... they’re toxic for actual social progress or simply adopting new ideas past age 5. But the deists in my life are probably the most selfless people I know. They’re just huge weirdos who shouldn’t be consulted about anything of consequence.
I feel like some of the largest "collective" issues we deal with as a country are often times trumpeted by people holding a book and pointing to words taken completely out of context, usually aimed at making someone's life worse, without impacting their own with the exception of what's written in the book that may or may not be completely true.

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