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mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:05 am

I feel like it's you guys that make them mythological though. I don't care about them, I just don't really get the fervent vilification...so I try to balance that out. I don't hold any deference for hardly anyone, these guys are no exception. That said, the vitriol that gets expressed seems odd and misplaced. It reads like sour grapes because as almost solely a result of the money they have, therefore everything they do is not good enough (see: charity. "That would be like if I donated a button and 30 cents. Do better than $11 billion maaaannnn.") or just downright evil. And, like, maybe...maybe in a certain tax bracket you just become evil or there's like an initiation process to being evil. Or maybe, you guys are just choked by the pedestal you put them on...
That guy's message is specifically related to longstanding propaganda that equates rich people with "job creators" and other such nonsense.
But that's just it. It doesn't explicitly do that. If it did that, it would have shown the net job creation of that sample of rich people that he was originally talking about.

Now...again, maybe they took a bunch of profits (profits are bad I think...if I'm following along, or, like too much profit - there's like an imaginary line that you cross to become evil...?) and then gassed a bunch of jobs. That doesn't necessarily make sense on its face given the industries that I assume we're talking about...but maybe. Or maybe this guy is spreading hateful propaganda himself...

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Postby dodint » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:05 am

The Kardashians and Rhinanna being billionaires are more offensive to me than Walton, Gates, Bezos, Cuban, etc.

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Postby NAN » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:09 am

The Kardashians and Rhinanna being billionaires are more offensive to me than Walton, Gates, Bezos, Cuban, etc.
:fist:

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:10 am

Easily...

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Postby MR25 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:10 am

I feel like it's you guys that make them mythological though. I don't care about them, I just don't really get the fervent vilification...so I try to balance that out. I don't hold any deference for hardly anyone, these guys are no exception. That said, the vitriol that gets expressed seems odd and misplaced. It reads like sour grapes because as almost solely a result of the money they have, therefore everything they do is not good enough (see: charity. "That would be like if I donated a button and 30 cents. Do better than $11 billion maaaannnn.") or just downright evil. And, like, maybe...maybe in a certain tax bracket you just become evil or there's like an initiation process to being evil. Or maybe, you guys are just choked by the pedestal you put them on...
That guy's message is specifically related to longstanding propaganda that equates rich people with "job creators" and other such nonsense.
But that's just it. It doesn't explicitly do that. If it did that, it would have shown the net job creation of that sample of rich people that he was originally talking about.

Now...again, maybe they took a bunch of profits (profits are bad I think...if I'm following along, or, like too much profit - there's like an imaginary line that you cross to become evil...?) and then gassed a bunch of jobs. That doesn't necessarily make sense on its face given the industries that I assume we're talking about...but maybe. Or maybe this guy is spreading hateful propaganda himself...

Profits aren't bad, don't be obtuse.

It's the distribution of those profits that is the issue.

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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:12 am

I feel like it's you guys that make them mythological though. I don't care about them, I just don't really get the fervent vilification...so I try to balance that out. I don't hold any deference for hardly anyone, these guys are no exception. That said, the vitriol that gets expressed seems odd and misplaced. It reads like sour grapes because as almost solely a result of the money they have, therefore everything they do is not good enough (see: charity. "That would be like if I donated a button and 30 cents. Do better than $11 billion maaaannnn.") or just downright evil. And, like, maybe...maybe in a certain tax bracket you just become evil or there's like an initiation process to being evil. Or maybe, you guys are just choked by the pedestal you put them on...
That guy's message is specifically related to longstanding propaganda that equates rich people with "job creators" and other such nonsense.
But that's just it. It doesn't explicitly do that. If it did that, it would have shown the net job creation of that sample of rich people that he was originally talking about.

Now...again, maybe they took a bunch of profits (profits are bad I think...if I'm following along, or, like too much profit - there's like an imaginary line that you cross to become evil...?) and then gassed a bunch of jobs. That doesn't necessarily make sense on its face given the industries that I assume we're talking about...but maybe. Or maybe this guy is spreading hateful propaganda himself...
I mean like, let’s just take musk, bezos, and the Walton’s out of the equation.

Let’s think instead about something like toys r us. It was a perfectly viable ongoing enterprise. Then some idiot owners came in, took out debt and bankrupted the company. Now, was toys r us going to beat Amazon? No, is this “creative destruction” no, just rent seekers wrecking peoples livliehoods.

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Postby dodint » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:14 am

I didn't include Musk in my grouping because he's built on government assistance.

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:23 am

unrelated, but I hosted thanksgiving this year and I had a (civil) conversation with my siblings about the fact that they thought I should take down my 13 star "Betsy Ross" flag that I fly outside

their argument is that the 13 star flag is representative of slavery-era America and that it could potentially make those from marginalized groups feel uncomfortable and, on the other side, encourage Trumpers. Now, I don't fly the flag for any reason other than I really like the aesthetic; I'm a history geek and appreciate the flag itself and don't for a second think about how back then was a better time or anything like that.

I don't disagree with them that it'll make some people feel uncomfortable and motivate dickweeds but I still maintain that I have no ill-will with flying the flag and if someone is uncomfortable with me flying a flag that represents a lot more than "this was a flag during slavery" then that's a them problem
People ate food during slavery. You should stop eating food so that people don't feel marginalized IMO

King Colby
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Postby King Colby » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:25 am

You shouldn't fly the modern 50 star flag either because there are social injustices in the country and you might make people feel marginalized

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Postby CBear3 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:29 am

The Kardashians and Rhinanna being billionaires are more offensive to me than Walton, Gates, Bezos, Cuban, etc.
:fist:
My FIL was lamenting all the money paid to athletes and how "we're worse than the Romans!" as he scrolled through PGA Tour highlights on his phone after watching college football all day.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:29 am

I feel like it's you guys that make them mythological though. I don't care about them, I just don't really get the fervent vilification...so I try to balance that out. I don't hold any deference for hardly anyone, these guys are no exception. That said, the vitriol that gets expressed seems odd and misplaced. It reads like sour grapes because as almost solely a result of the money they have, therefore everything they do is not good enough (see: charity. "That would be like if I donated a button and 30 cents. Do better than $11 billion maaaannnn.") or just downright evil. And, like, maybe...maybe in a certain tax bracket you just become evil or there's like an initiation process to being evil. Or maybe, you guys are just choked by the pedestal you put them on...
That guy's message is specifically related to longstanding propaganda that equates rich people with "job creators" and other such nonsense.
But that's just it. It doesn't explicitly do that. If it did that, it would have shown the net job creation of that sample of rich people that he was originally talking about.

Now...again, maybe they took a bunch of profits (profits are bad I think...if I'm following along, or, like too much profit - there's like an imaginary line that you cross to become evil...?) and then gassed a bunch of jobs. That doesn't necessarily make sense on its face given the industries that I assume we're talking about...but maybe. Or maybe this guy is spreading hateful propaganda himself...
I mean like, let’s just take musk, bezos, and the Walton’s out of the equation.

Let’s think instead about something like toys r us. It was a perfectly viable ongoing enterprise. Then some idiot owners came in, took out debt and bankrupted the company. Now, was toys r us going to beat Amazon? No, is this “creative destruction” no, just rent seekers wrecking peoples livliehoods.
Wrecking peoples livelihoods with lower cost products that have more mass appeal than toys r us ever could...

And sure, that could go wrong, but is there a history there? Standard Oil's monopoly led to oil prices plummeting for the consumer. It also led to innovations that helped advance the industry as a whole because they had the revenue to pursue other innovation.

Anyway, if you want to support workers that are getting shafted, I back that too...I think a lot of mythology of it all is from the pinkos that just assume everyone is a direct actor in their own business's day-to-day and those actions amount to them being Mr. Burns...

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Postby CBear3 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:30 am

You shouldn't fly the modern 50 star flag either because there are social injustices in the country and you might make people feel marginalized
What about DC! You're purposefully excluding the citizens of the District!

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Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:30 am

unrelated, but I hosted thanksgiving this year and I had a (civil) conversation with my siblings about the fact that they thought I should take down my 13 star "Betsy Ross" flag that I fly outside

their argument is that the 13 star flag is representative of slavery-era America and that it could potentially make those from marginalized groups feel uncomfortable and, on the other side, encourage Trumpers. Now, I don't fly the flag for any reason other than I really like the aesthetic; I'm a history geek and appreciate the flag itself and don't for a second think about how back then was a better time or anything like that.

I don't disagree with them that it'll make some people feel uncomfortable and motivate dickweeds but I still maintain that I have no ill-will with flying the flag and if someone is uncomfortable with me flying a flag that represents a lot more than "this was a flag during slavery" then that's a them problem
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I have the Gadsden Flag hanging in the basement. Not as a nod to Christian nationalists or the right wing, but because I think it's a cool flag, especially given the time period it was used.

Do your siblings spend a lot of time on Tumblr?

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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:41 am



Wrecking peoples livelihoods with lower cost products that have more mass appeal than toys r us ever could...

And sure, that could go wrong, but is there a history there? Standard Oil's monopoly led to oil prices plummeting for the consumer. It also led to innovations that helped advance the industry as a whole because they had the revenue to pursue other innovation.

Anyway, if you want to support workers that are getting shafted, I back that too...I think a lot of mythology of it all is from the pinkos that just assume everyone is a direct actor in their own business's day-to-day and those actions amount to them being Mr. Burns...
No, wrecking livelihoods by throwing people out of work because some jackasses thought they could get a higher return on their capital.

This is clearly an unconstructive conversation.

Good day.

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Postby NAN » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:50 am

You shouldn't fly the modern 50 star flag either because there are social injustices in the country and you might make people feel marginalized
There are flags with every color of the rainbow and every single symbol for someone that feels their dick is a vag, and people still feel marginalized

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Postby NAN » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:51 am

The Kardashians and Rhinanna being billionaires are more offensive to me than Walton, Gates, Bezos, Cuban, etc.
:fist:
My FIL was lamenting all the money paid to athletes and how "we're worse than the Romans!" as he scrolled through PGA Tour highlights on his phone after watching college football all day.
Oh. It's 100% our fault the Kardashians are a thing (and athletes, etc). Logical but mind blowing at the same time.

mikey
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Postby mikey » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:05 pm



Wrecking peoples livelihoods with lower cost products that have more mass appeal than toys r us ever could...

And sure, that could go wrong, but is there a history there? Standard Oil's monopoly led to oil prices plummeting for the consumer. It also led to innovations that helped advance the industry as a whole because they had the revenue to pursue other innovation.

Anyway, if you want to support workers that are getting shafted, I back that too...I think a lot of mythology of it all is from the pinkos that just assume everyone is a direct actor in their own business's day-to-day and those actions amount to them being Mr. Burns...
No, wrecking livelihoods by throwing people out of work because some jackasses thought they could get a higher return on their capital.

This is clearly an unconstructive conversation.

Good day.
That's fine. It started with likely bad data, so you didn't really have a leg to stand on.

I will assume that if that small business (peoples livelihoods) became successful enough that it caused job loss at an Amazon type outfit that would be ok, even celebrated. And then once that small business crossed a threshold, that it too would become evil.

Royal Yous fantasize about a never-lose situation and yet never win...

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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:20 pm

Okay.
Your last post was absolute jibberish, so I tried to exit politely.

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Postby Gaucho » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:32 pm

Image

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:33 pm

Image

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Postby willeyeam » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:03 pm

millenials killed santa

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Postby NTP66 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:04 pm


LITT
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Postby LITT » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:11 pm

I feel like it's you guys that make them mythological though. I don't care about them, I just don't really get the fervent vilification...so I try to balance that out. I don't hold any deference for hardly anyone, these guys are no exception. That said, the vitriol that gets expressed seems odd and misplaced. It reads like sour grapes because as almost solely a result of the money they have, therefore everything they do is not good enough (see: charity. "That would be like if I donated a button and 30 cents. Do better than $11 billion maaaannnn.") or just downright evil. And, like, maybe...maybe in a certain tax bracket you just become evil or there's like an initiation process to being evil. Or maybe, you guys are just choked by the pedestal you put them on...
I think this is simplistic, but I also get how complaining about rich people is simplistic.

For me, it's about institutional rot. you, and people of your mindset view the rot as a product of corrupt government. I would view it as a product of a corrupt system, that is the whole corporate-government we live under. That guy's message is specifically related to longstanding propaganda that equates rich people with "job creators" and other such nonsense.

I just think the perverse incentives of capitalism are just swept under the rug under these mythos. And I suppose it's understandable, as the only historical comparison to our liberal democracy is the Soviet mob state.

My only resolution is to allow people to actually question the incentive structure for industries as a whole, and allow government some leeway to reduce the potential harm posed by those harmful incentives (for example, insurance incentives are to charge higher premiums and provide less coverage, oil industry incentives are to keep people reliant on oil until there is no more oil, facebook's incentives are to have people staring at their facebook feed all day, Coke wants people drinking multiple servings of sugar liquid everyday). It's all the cigarette company dilemma acted out over and over again.

Rich People / capitalists created this system. They don't want the government acting on behalf of the people (workers and consumer), they want them to continue acting on behalf of the owners.
part of the challenge about creating incentives/methodologies to impact some of the large engines in america are that many of the people/bodies in charge of levying said incentives currently hold their seat as a result of the dollars from these people. the entire system is fractured and the machine is too large to stop unfortunately

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:38 pm


Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:03 pm



part of the challenge about creating incentives/methodologies to impact some of the large engines in america are that many of the people/bodies in charge of levying said incentives currently hold their seat as a result of the dollars from these people. the entire system is fractured and the machine is too large to stop unfortunately
Agree entirely.

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