Politics And Current Events

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:24 pm

It is fun watching a Democrat explain away voting discrepancies as simple errors and not possibly systematic fraud when anything a Republican does that has to do with voting mechanics is by default disenfranchisement.

It's expected and obvious but a thing to marvel at when you see it in real time. I don't know or care if TL is right, I think both sides suck, just amused.

Are voting discrepancies (intentional or not) inherently worse than the active attempt at preventing certain populations from exercising their right to vote?
They both can sway close elections.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:27 pm

I don't even know how to respond to that. You are effectively morphing into EPP.
When your argument is **** and you need to deflect.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:54 pm

And from what I understand, the idiots in Broward county ignored advice of election experts in the design of the ballot which has likely resulted in a large under-vote in the senate race.
Yeah, this is just rank incompetence here.

Poorly designed ballots, not knowing what it means when the big hand is pointing at 12 and the little hand is pointing at 5. They're just dopes.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:57 pm

I don't even know how to respond to that. You are effectively morphing into EPP.
When your argument is **** and you need to deflect.
Let me know when you make an argument.

You are running the EPP playbook here, make an assertion that can't be disproved and then take a numerous victory laps on your yet to be disproved assertion.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:58 pm

I’m glad you can only see through your democrat goggles.
I think all of these errors so far have been more beneficial to the Republican candidates in the statewide elections. This isn't a partisan thing. But then, neither should be ensuring that all votes are accurately tallied.

At any rate, I do think Florida needs to take a long look in the mirror, and maybe have federal election officials teach them how to groom. They are a complete mess.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:22 pm

I don't even know how to respond to that. You are effectively morphing into EPP.
When your argument is **** and you need to deflect.
Let me know when you make an argument.

You are running the EPP playbook here, make an assertion that can't be disproved and then take a numerous victory laps on your yet to be disproved assertion.
Deflect, deflect, deflect. It’s sadly the best you can do. Never went on a victory lap. It’s pathetic when you resort to saying someone is EPP.

This is a message board, of course us asking for an investigation will never happen, so one way can’t be proven correct over the other.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:23 pm

I’m glad you can only see through your democrat goggles.
I think all of these errors so far have been more beneficial to the Republican candidates in the statewide elections. This isn't a partisan thing. But then, neither should be ensuring that all votes are accurately tallied.

At any rate, I do think Florida needs to take a long look in the mirror, and maybe have federal election officials teach them how to groom. They are a complete mess.

It is a partisan thing. Democrats never want to admit that voter fraud happens. This is a perfect opportunity to investigate the assclowns in Florida. What are you guys afraid of? At best it shows they are incompetent, at worst it shows voter fraud.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:27 pm

This is not voter fraud.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:28 pm

This is not voter fraud.
How do you know without an investigation? You can’t.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:30 pm


tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Julian Assange has been charged, prosecutors reveal inadvertently in court filing
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been charged under seal, prosecutors inadvertently revealed in a recently unsealed court filing — a development that could significantly advance the probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election and have major implications for those who publish government secrets.

The disclosure came in a filing in a case unrelated to Assange. Assistant U.S. Attorney Kellen S. Dwyer, urging a judge to keep the matter sealed, wrote that “due to the sophistication of the defendant and the publicity surrounding the case, no other procedure is likely to keep confidential the fact that Assange has been charged.” Later, Dwyer wrote the charges would “need to remain sealed until Assange is arrested.”

Dwyer is also assigned to the WikiLeaks case. People familiar with the matter said what Dwyer was disclosing was true, but unintentional.

Joshua Stueve, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office in the Eastern District of Virginia, said, “The court filing was made in error. That was not the intended name for this filing.”

An FBI spokeswoman declined to comment.
Part of me wonders whether this disclosure truly was an inadvertent copy-paste mistake or deliberately intended to publicly ruffle some feathers.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:35 pm

This is not voter fraud.
How do you know without an investigation? You can’t.
One, I am in favor of an investigation. So climb that tree with someone else.

Two, voter fraud is when a voter commits fraud by illegally voting, either through ineligibility or by casting multiple ballots. That is separate and distinct from the vote counting mess that's going on.

They are completely unrelated issues.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:36 pm

Snipes has been accused and found guilty of ballot destroying and tampering before. Forgive me if I want the integrity of our elections investigated.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:38 pm

Snipes has been accused and found guilty of ballot destroying and tampering before. Forgive me if I want the integrity of our elections investigated.
She was found to have prematurely destroyed ballots in 2016, which resulted in monitors being on hand for the execution of the election. Said monitors are stating that there is no fraud taking place.

So to restate this, Snopes is under increased scrutiny and she is not overseeing fraud.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:39 pm

This is not voter fraud.
How do you know without an investigation? You can’t.
One, I am in favor of an investigation. So climb that tree with someone else.

Two, voter fraud is when a voter commits fraud by illegally voting, either through ineligibility or by casting multiple ballots. That is separate and distinct from the vote counting mess that's going on.

They are completely unrelated issues.

Actually voter fraud covers all these categories.

Double voting (ballot stuffing): One individual casts more than one ballot in the same election.

Dead voters: The name of a deceased person remains on a state's official list of registered voters and a living person fraudulently casts a ballot in that name.

Felon voter fraud: The casting of a ballot by a convicted felon who is not eligible to vote as a result of being a felon.

Voter suppression: A variety of tactics aimed at lowering or suppressing the number of voters who might otherwise vote in a particular election.

Registration fraud: Filling out and submitting a voter registration card for a fictional person, or filling out a voter registration card with the name of a real person, but without that person's consent, and forging his or her signature on the card.

Voter impersonation: A person claims to be someone else when casting a vote.

Vote-buying: Agreements between voters and others to buy and sell votes, such as a candidate paying voters to vote for him or her.

Fraud by election officials: Manipulation of ballots by officials administering the election, such as tossing out ballots or casting ballots in voters' names.

Ballot harvesting: A person requests a mail ballot for someone else or steals a mail ballot, then uses that ballot and forges the intended recipient's signature. Also refers to filling out a ballot for someone else who has requested assistance in filling out a ballot, rather than assisting them. In some states, ballot harvesting refers to the legal practice of third-party collection of multiple absentee ballots for submission.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:41 pm

This is not voter fraud.
How do you know without an investigation? You can’t.
One, I am in favor of an investigation. So climb that tree with someone else.

Two, voter fraud is when a voter commits fraud by illegally voting, either through ineligibility or by casting multiple ballots. That is separate and distinct from the vote counting mess that's going on.

They are completely unrelated issues.
I think in this context he's arguing that there is some sort of ballot box stuffing. Which would amount to a conspiracy, and while none of us can definitely prove that this isn't taking place. This sort of conspiracy would have almost certainly been uncovered amidst the heightened scrutiny these folks are subject to.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:43 pm

Snipes has been accused and found guilty of ballot destroying and tampering before. Forgive me if I want the integrity of our elections investigated.
She was found to have prematurely destroyed ballots in 2016, which resulted in monitors being on hand for the execution of the election. Said monitors are stating that there is no fraud taking place.

So to restate this, Snopes is under increased scrutiny and she is not overseeing fraud.

So two election officials are going to be able to sufficiently cover almost 600 precincts?

I’ve uncovered fraud several times as an auditor. Just watching and monitoring a situation will almost never uncover it, especially if they know you are there.

dodint
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Postby dodint » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:47 pm

Two, voter fraud is when a voter commits fraud by illegally voting, either through ineligibility or by casting multiple ballots. That is separate and distinct from the vote counting mess that's going on.

They are completely unrelated issues.
I appreciate this effort to distinguish 'voter fraud' from 'election tampering'.

I don't think it's useful for this conversation but it's admirable.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:49 pm

With the exception of 'double voting', all of those other categories fall under 'ineligibility' imo (except for maybe vote buying). And I would also say 'fraud by election officials' is more accurately characterized as 'election fraud' and is a distinctly different thing from voter fraud.

Put in context, advocates of voter ID laws seem to favor that path because it could prevent or inhibit the former, and I don't necessarily disagree. But that activity is so rare as to be almost inconsequential (there was one study a few years ago that found around 30 credible occurrences out of 1 billion ballots cast between 2000-2014). That's not an attempt to dismiss the act, rather a recognition of the scale of the issue. The latter - election fraud, or after-the-fact vote manipulation - I believe to be more prevalent, but cannot be impeded by the requirement of a voter to show a laminated photo of themselves on the day.

Again imo.

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Postby CBear3 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:11 pm


Part of me wonders whether this disclosure truly was an inadvertent copy-paste mistake or deliberately intended to publicly ruffle some feathers.
How does this come out the same time Acosta gets his credentials back?

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:50 pm

Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq
Edward Gallagher was something special, even by the punishing standards of the Navy SEALs. Both a lifesaving medic and a crack sniper, he was repeatedly decorated for valor and for coolheaded leadership during 19 years of combat deployments. After his latest tour, fighting Islamic State militants in Iraq, he was named the top platoon leader in SEAL Team 7 and nominated for the Silver Star, the military’s third-highest honor.

But now, less than a year later, Special Operations Chief Gallagher, 39, is locked in the brig, facing charges that during that same deployment — his eighth — he shot indiscriminately at civilians, killed a teenage Islamic State fighter with a handmade custom blade, and then performed his re-enlistment ceremony posing with the teenager’s bloody corpse in front of an American flag.
In a two-day preliminary hearing at Naval Base San Diego that concluded Thursday, prosecutors presented accounts from several other SEALs in Chief Gallagher’s platoon describing his behavior as reckless and bloodthirsty. They said he fired into civilian crowds, gunned down a girl walking along a riverbank and an old man carrying a water jug, and threatened to kill fellow SEALs if they reported his actions.

Some platoon members were so distraught by the chief’s actions, investigators said, that they tampered with his sniper rifle to make it less accurate, and fired warning shots to scare away civilians before the chief had a chance to shoot them.
That last claim seems a bit much; SEALs lives could be imperiled by this, too.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:47 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... nt-n909001
The cost of security provided to DeVos was $5.3 million in fiscal year 2017 and $6.8 million for fiscal year 2018, according to the Marshals Service — an amount that is ultimately reimbursed by the Education Department. The estimated cost for fiscal year 2019 is $7.74 million.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:55 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... nt-n909001
The cost of security provided to DeVos was $5.3 million in fiscal year 2017 and $6.8 million for fiscal year 2018, according to the Marshals Service — an amount that is ultimately reimbursed by the Education Department. The estimated cost for fiscal year 2019 is $7.74 million.
Education Department spokeswoman Liz Hill said DeVos had not personally requested the protection.
That makes this different from Pruitt and the other lavish benders.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:56 pm

Different but still wildly wasteful.

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Postby AuthorTony » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:02 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46198498
Car tires pop around William Hart as they succumb to the fire. Along the way, he picks up a passenger and two abandoned dogs, who sit on his back seat as he records his journey on his phone.

William passes the charred remains of other dogs, and some which he believes are human. He can't look at the footage, and deletes it, then keeps driving for hours once the fire is behind him.

At least 63 people were killed, many as they became trapped in their cars as the fire surrounded them.
Absolutely horrifying.

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