Politics And Current Events

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I think most of us agree that diversity = good but forced diversity = bad

[shmenguin]

I like the idea of giving minorities access to flight school, but at the same time, my biggest fear is the relaxation of standards to force diversity to happen. It already happens at universities...obviously, the consequences of that policy are generally not life and death.

the potential liability costs outweigh the good vibes. i think we'll be fine.

[shmenguin]

I think most of us agree that diversity = good but forced diversity = bad

forced diversity in school boards and juries and whatnot where the makeup of the group represents the community demographics...that's a good thing imo.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I think most of us agree that diversity = good but forced diversity = bad

forced diversity in school boards and juries and whatnot where the makeup of the group represents the community demographics...that's a good thing imo.

I wouldn’t really consider that forced. I’m more talking about hiring a black person over a white person even if a white person is more qualified or remaking Ghostbusters with female Ghostbusters rather than a new IP like the Alien franchise that has a strong female character more organically

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

like something I was thinking about recently. People freak out when a non white or non male actor is proposed to be the new James Bond. Tenet comes out with John David Washington as the protagonist and not a single person complains that he’s black even though it’s effectively a James Bond type spy movie

The former is forced diversity, the latter is organic diversity

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

And I’ll admit that it’s not as simple as I’m making it out to be. To achieve organic diversity you need people in decision-making positions to believe in diversity being an important thing, which the US struggles with. I’m reminded of studies that showed people with black-sounding names are less likely to be accepted into college. That’s shitty and needs to get fixed.

But coming up with hard numbers isn’t good. Affirmative action isn’t healthy imo

[nocera]

I'm not sure the Ghostbusters remake really fits into your argument here but I appreciate any opportunity to **** on that film.

[MR25]

But why should it matter if the actor who plays James Bond is white or black?

Hint: it shouldn't.

[willeyeam]

Lol

[NAN]

like something I was thinking about recently. People freak out when a non white or non male actor is proposed to be the new James Bond. Tenet comes out with John David Washington as the protagonist and not a single person complains that he’s black even though it’s effectively a James Bond type spy movie

The former is forced diversity, the latter is organic diversity

I'm down with this and have said this in the past.

[shmenguin]

I think most of us agree that diversity = good but forced diversity = bad

forced diversity in school boards and juries and whatnot where the makeup of the group represents the community demographics...that's a good thing imo.

I wouldn’t really consider that forced. I’m more talking about hiring a black person over a white person even if a white person is more qualified or remaking Ghostbusters with female Ghostbusters rather than a new IP like the Alien franchise that has a strong female character more organically

you think hollywood is re-factoring their diversity at this scale because it's "forced"? they projected lady ghostbusters to make more money than geriatric ghostbusters with OG cast or some sort of seth rogan or zack effron ghostbusters - or even an original idea. that's why.

you're acting like it's something happening against the will of the film industry.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

But why should it matter if the actor who plays James Bond is white or black?

Hint: it shouldn't.

James Bond is a white male character. Changing that is like changing Blade from a black to a white character

[NAN]

But why should it matter if the actor who plays James Bond is white or black?

Hint: it shouldn't.

Don't know why it's a bad thing to keep a white womanizing spy that has been that way for 60+ years a white, womanizing spy. Just like I wouldn't want Shaft to be recast with some white dude. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[shmenguin]

nobody under a certain age cares about James Bond or Daniel Craig, so they changed the model. same reason why the Pope is now cool with gay people.

[Troy Loney]

That whole ghostbusters backlash was so aggressively stupid.

It was clear that it was going to suck, it would have sucked regardless of the cast. They made the cast female to target a certain demographic, being outside that target demographic, you are fully empowered to never watch the dumb movie. But somewhere it gets translated that hollywood is ruining things by putting women in my films.

[nocera]

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.

[NAN]

nobody under a certain age cares about James Bond or Daniel Craig, so they changed the model. same reason why the Pope is now cool with gay people.

I don't think that's true considering it's one of the all time most successful film franchises and still does pretty well in the box office.

[NAN]

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.

Go out and ask someone if James Bond is white or black.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.

his whiteness wasn't central to his character but his whiteness was was part of his characterization. Again, similar to Blade. People would describe Blade as black but that's because we tend to specify race when someone is non-white (since we're in a white majority country). This happens all the time. "Remember that guy at the party...the black guy?" whether it's right or wrong, I've never heard anyone described as a "white guy" outside of a basketball court

that's also why I used Blade as an example and not Black Panther. Black Panther's blackness IS central to his character and it woldn't make any sense to replace him with a white character. Blade, on the other hand, is a black guy, but not once during any of the Blade movies is his race (or anyone else's race) mentioned or alluded to


whitewashing non-white characters is bad and blackwashing white characters is bad. It's both bad. Don't do it. Create new characters.

but Hollywood is cheap and artistically bankrupt so they don't care

[nocera]

That whole ghostbusters backlash was so aggressively stupid.

It was clear that it was going to suck, it would have sucked regardless of the cast. They made the cast female to target a certain demographic, being outside that target demographic, you are fully empowered to never watch the dumb movie. But somewhere it gets translated that hollywood is ruining things by putting women in my films.

The backlash to Ghostsbusters is they took a beloved franchise and made a really **** bad movie. That's the end of the story. If it was a good movie, there would be no backlash. Were some idiots turned off because of they're just misogynists? Probably. But the majority of that backlash came because it's a shitty movie using the Ghostbusters good name to make a buck.

[nocera]

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.

Go out and ask someone if James Bond is white or black.

That's not really what I meant. I meant that his race isn't essential whatsoever to his character.

[PFiDC]

If you asked me to describe his character I would probably not mention his race. If you asked me to describe James Bond I almost certainly would.

[nocera]

Outside of this conversation, when you ask somebody to describe the James Bond character, nobody in their right mind is going to include "white" in their description.

his whiteness wasn't central to his character but his whiteness was was part of his characterization. Again, similar to Blade. People would describe Blade as black but that's because we tend to specify race when someone is non-white (since we're in a white majority country). This happens all the time. "Remember that guy at the party...the black guy?" whether it's right or wrong, I've never heard anyone described as a "white guy" outside of a basketball court

that's also why I used Blade as an example and not Black Panther. Black Panther's blackness IS central to his character and it woldn't make any sense to replace him with a white character. Blade, on the other hand, is a black guy, but not once during any of the Blade movies is his race (or anyone else's race) mentioned or alluded to

I agree with this but I also think that's because there are very few blockbusters that feature a black lead. Blade's race is important because there are only a handful of black superheroes that have been trusted to carry a film. I mean, I think the list is five or six. He was created as a black hero in the 70s. The team behind the 98 movie fought to keep him a black character. His race was way more important because he was black than it would have been if he had been created as a white character and then subsequently a black actor was cast.

[nocera]

I think one way around the "whitewashing" or "blackwashing" thing is to create a new character within that world to takeover the role. Spider-Man has Mile Morales. Similarly, the Bond franchise could have a new character take up the 007 mantle.

[shmenguin]

in 2020, a british secret agent who is also an epic poon hound could be either white or black, and there's also no continuity from Brosnan-to-Craig. So I do find this pushback to be sort of odd. Do we think skin color is identity or not? because if we're ascribing additional qualities inherently to your race, then this whole thread needs a redo.