Politics And Current Events

Gaucho
Posts: 49574
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:31 pm
Location: shootzepucklefraude

Politics And Current Events

Postby Gaucho » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:51 am

How do you know?

faftorial
Posts: 14818
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm
Location: Lengeschder

Politics And Current Events

Postby faftorial » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:52 am

About Trump just hanging out through a lost election...? Yeah, that's still a crazy thought...rest assured.
A lost or a disputed election?

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:55 am

About Trump just hanging out through a lost election...? Yeah, that's still a crazy thought...rest assured.
Is this a situation where an argument is distilled through internal delusions, where it is re-framed into the dumb point that the person would prefer mocking?

Arguing that Trump is going to contest the election results and challenge those in court is not saying that Trump is going to refuse to leave the white house until the military comes. And no, this isn't just right-wingers making that juxtaposition, lots of resistance and prominent dems can be heard flagellating at the image of military men coming in and booting Trump from the White House. It is rather noxious to replace the real chaos that will ensue, as Florida 2000 **** gets played out in states across the country, with the comedic image of Trump being physically evicted from the WH.

mikey
Posts: 42248
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:58 pm
Location: More of a before-rehab friend...
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby mikey » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:01 am

How do you know?
The same way that you do...

mikey
Posts: 42248
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:58 pm
Location: More of a before-rehab friend...
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby mikey » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:06 am

Really all of the responses can be summed up with that one ^

If you're looking for stuff to worry about, there's just better things to sit around and worry about...spend your energy hyping up your loser candidate and making your loudest people less unlikable haha

nocera
Posts: 41735
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 am
Location: He/Him

Politics And Current Events

Postby nocera » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:06 am


NAN
Posts: 11563
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:26 pm
Location: shoeshine boy is a lady

Politics And Current Events

Postby NAN » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:16 am

Really all of the responses can be summed up with that one ^

If you're looking for stuff to worry about, there's just better things to sit around and worry about...spend your energy hyping up your loser candidate and making your loudest people less unlikable haha
I'm just going to enjoy my white privilege in suburban Pittsburgh.

The other **** is just draining.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:29 am

Really all of the responses can be summed up with that one ^

If you're looking for stuff to worry about, there's just better things to sit around and worry about...spend your energy hyping up your loser candidate and making your loudest people less unlikable haha
I have a lot of thoughts on this that are going come out gargled and incoherent, but I'll give it a shot. I think it's born from the mindset most of us occupy as post-cold war generations. It mostly evolves around the "end of history" mindset, which basically takes most things for granted and assumes that life just progresses onward and upward alongside technological change. All the shadow and overt institutions that keep order will persist and prevail over pressures and we'll never know.

So, take what you will with that sentiment, and apply it to the legitimacy of our elections and what happens when the winner is widely considered illegitimate. Obviously we can cite the 2000 precedent, but, I would argue that is not helpful. It illustrates the potential chaos that can ensue when the presidential election is thrown into the courts. But the root cause problem was due to absolute idiocy and incompetence, not malevolent forces seeking to undermine the election. While that fight got extremely ugly, Bush and Gore had to navigate that mess, and both had a right to advocate on their behalf. (and yes, lots of people considered the election rigged, but that was not the mainstream understanding, team Bush didn't design those ballots).

I'm just saying, our elections are fragile, the process isn't ordained by God, and a fundamentally corrupt cheater could blow this **** up if he wanted to. And that's where we are heading unless a handful of states figure out how to flawlessly run this upcoming election day.

tifosi77
Posts: 51511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Politics And Current Events

Postby tifosi77 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:31 am

The much ballyhooed 'guardrails' that protect our system are only as sturdy as the people manning and enforcing them.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:34 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u- ... e-n1236713

So is this postal service situation really happening because of Trump and the election or is there another reason for what appears to be happening?

100% Trump and the election, he admitted to it yesterday.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... urtail-it/
More: “[T]he RNC and Trump campaign advisers are now mapping out their post-election strategy, including how to challenge mail ballots without postmarks, as they anticipate weeks-long legal fights in an array of states, according to people familiar with the plans, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions.”
“The campaign plans to have lawyers ready to mobilize in every state and expects legal battles could play out after Election Day in such states as Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Michigan and Nevada, they said.”
Going to be an absolute nightmare.
No one has ever challenged the validity of presidential election results within a swing state before...

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:39 am



No one has ever challenged the validity of presidential election results within a swing state before...
Do you think there was no cause for an audit or recount of the 2000 election in FL?

It's mostly just laughable to use that as a precedent. Trump is trying to create the reasons that the results need to be challenged.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:41 am

The much ballyhooed 'guardrails' that protect our system are only as sturdy as the people manning and enforcing them.
I think the way American History is taught as like folklore or mythology has allowed this mindset to become widespread.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:42 am



No one has ever challenged the validity of presidential election results within a swing state before...
Do you think there was no cause for an audit or recount of the 2000 election in FL?

It's mostly just laughable to use that as a precedent. Trump is trying to create the reasons that the results need to be challenged.
Sure there was cause. Was there cause to request 3 recounts and go to the Supreme Court? No.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:44 am

The much ballyhooed 'guardrails' that protect our system are only as sturdy as the people manning and enforcing them.
I think the way American History is taught as like folklore or mythology has allowed this mindset to become widespread.
Do you honestly believe the Secret Service and the Pentagon leaders are just going to be like... “ Hmmm... I guess he isn’t leaving. He is still president then...”?

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:45 am

The much ballyhooed 'guardrails' that protect our system are only as sturdy as the people manning and enforcing them.
I think the way American History is taught as like folklore or mythology has allowed this mindset to become widespread.
Do you honestly believe the Secret Service and the Pentagon leaders are just going to be like... “ Hmmm... I guess he isn’t leaving. He is still president then...”?
plz read earlier posts.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:47 am



No one has ever challenged the validity of presidential election results within a swing state before...
Do you think there was no cause for an audit or recount of the 2000 election in FL?

It's mostly just laughable to use that as a precedent. Trump is trying to create the reasons that the results need to be challenged.
Sure there was cause. Was there cause to request 3 recounts and go to the Supreme Court? No.
I think the SCOTUS interjected itself after the FL State supreme court ordered a recount. Have to look at that again, but I am pretty sure that it wasn't Gore challenging it to SCOTUS.

count2infinity
Posts: 35613
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:06 pm
Location: All things must pass. With six you get eggroll. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby count2infinity » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:47 am

Ballyhooed is a fantastic word.

mikey
Posts: 42248
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:58 pm
Location: More of a before-rehab friend...
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby mikey » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:48 am

Really all of the responses can be summed up with that one ^

If you're looking for stuff to worry about, there's just better things to sit around and worry about...spend your energy hyping up your loser candidate and making your loudest people less unlikable haha
I have a lot of thoughts on this that are going come out gargled and incoherent, but I'll give it a shot. I think it's born from the mindset most of us occupy as post-cold war generations. It mostly evolves around the "end of history" mindset, which basically takes most things for granted and assumes that life just progresses onward and upward alongside technological change. All the shadow and overt institutions that keep order will persist and prevail over pressures and we'll never know.

So, take what you will with that sentiment, and apply it to the legitimacy of our elections and what happens when the winner is widely considered illegitimate. Obviously we can cite the 2000 precedent, but, I would argue that is not helpful. It illustrates the potential chaos that can ensue when the presidential election is thrown into the courts. But the root cause problem was due to absolute idiocy and incompetence, not malevolent forces seeking to undermine the election. While that fight got extremely ugly, Bush and Gore had to navigate that mess, and both had a right to advocate on their behalf. (and yes, lots of people considered the election rigged, but that was not the mainstream understanding, team Bush didn't design those ballots).

I'm just saying, our elections are fragile, the process isn't ordained by God, and a fundamentally corrupt cheater could blow this **** up if he wanted to. And that's where we are heading unless a handful of states figure out how to flawlessly run this upcoming election day.
Yeah, I get that...that's not an unreasonable theory or premise for a theory...it might not well be smooth, but a convincing win ought to be enough to squash that potential...

I don't know, I don't have a good answer to, "what if there's a problem and it sucks..." - things are weird right now, it probably won't be a "normal" election...but I also don't think Captain Stupid is just gonna sit there and kick up a bunch of dust if he gets waxed...if you get into a 2000 Florida situation, well, then you get into a 2000 Florida situation...that'd be annoying, just like it was then...

I don't know, maybe I'm underselling it...but it's not like we're just cruising along anyway, even if we hit another bump in the road, will we actually feel it...? Seems pretty unlikely to me...all of this...

tifosi77
Posts: 51511
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Politics And Current Events

Postby tifosi77 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:48 am

Bush v Gore

Troy Loney
Posts: 27517
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:48 am

By December 8, 2000, there had been multiple court decisions regarding the presidential election in Florida.[18] On that date the Florida Supreme Court, by a 4–3 vote, ordered a statewide manual recount.[19] On December 9, ruling in response to an emergency request by Bush, the U.S. Supreme Court stayed the recount. The Court also decided to treat Bush's application for relief as a petition for a writ of certiorari, granted that petition, requested briefing from the parties by 4 pm on December 10 and scheduled oral argument for the morning of December 11
Right, so Bush appealed to SCOTUS.

nocera
Posts: 41735
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 am
Location: He/Him

Politics And Current Events

Postby nocera » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:49 am

No, but should he lose, I can see him not conceding, complaining incessantly about a rigged election, making 46% of the country question the validity and fairness of our election process. I don't know how that will affect the next presidency or the overall divisiveness of the country, but when nearly half the population doesn't have confidence in the democratic process, it's probably not a good thing.
Last edited by nocera on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:51 am



No one has ever challenged the validity of presidential election results within a swing state before...
Do you think there was no cause for an audit or recount of the 2000 election in FL?

It's mostly just laughable to use that as a precedent. Trump is trying to create the reasons that the results need to be challenged.
Sure there was cause. Was there cause to request 3 recounts and go to the Supreme Court? No.
I think the SCOTUS interjected itself after the FL State supreme court ordered a recount. Have to look at that again, but I am pretty sure that it wasn't Gore challenging it to SCOTUS.
Yes I am aware. The whole thing was **** ing stupid.

mikey
Posts: 42248
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:58 pm
Location: More of a before-rehab friend...
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby mikey » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:53 am

*Jerry Seinfeld style shrug* ...what are you gonna do...? Like someone too drunk to be served at a bar, he'll get told to leave, he'll complain a bunch as he's walking out...maybe a **** you match with a bouncer for 10 seconds...then he grabs his coat, he walks out, and he forgets all about it...and everyone goes back to having a time...

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:54 am

No, but should he lose, I can see him not conceding, complaining incessantly about a rigged election, making 46% of the country question the validity and fairness of our election process. I don't know how that will affect the next presidency or the overall divisiveness of the country, but when nearly half the population doesn't have confidence in the democratic process, it's probably not a good thing.
Ummm... have you missed the last 3.5 years of Democrats complaining about the rigged election and fairness of the election process? I can’t imagine it will be much different.

nocera
Posts: 41735
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 am
Location: He/Him

Politics And Current Events

Postby nocera » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:56 am

No, but should he lose, I can see him not conceding, complaining incessantly about a rigged election, making 46% of the country question the validity and fairness of our election process. I don't know how that will affect the next presidency or the overall divisiveness of the country, but when nearly half the population doesn't have confidence in the democratic process, it's probably not a good thing.
Ummm... have you missed the last 3.5 years of Democrats complaining about the rigged election and fairness of the election process? I can’t imagine it will be much different.
I guess I have? Has Hillary been off complaining about rigged elections? Or we talking about the "not my president" thing? Or the complaints about the EC?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: faftorial and 104 guests