Politics And Current Events

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:27 am

Like a Christopher Nolan movie?
I like Christopher Nolan movies.

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:29 am

Yeah I would think it means something seemingly complex that is actually simple

mikey
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Postby mikey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:32 am

Yeah, I think they got the wording deceptively wrong...

nocera
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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:32 am

Would that be reversed though? Like it was "deceptively complex"
No, that would be deceptively simple. Deceptively in this case means "appears this way but is not." Like deceptively smart. That person appears smart, but is not. That's the deception.

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Postby mikey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 am

I don't see how it can't be both things, at the least...

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:34 am

It’s also unclear what they intend the phrasing to mean.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:34 am

It can be. It depends on the context I suppose.
Usage Note: When deceptively is used to modify an adjective, the meaning can be unclear. Does the sentence The pool is deceptively shallow mean that the pool is shallower or deeper than it appears? Is it apparently shallow, but not really, or is it actually shallow but only looks deep? Thus, a deceptively complex person might be either complex or simple, depending on the point of view. The meaning of deceptively is thus very dependent upon the context, and writers should be careful to ensure that the word cannot be misinterpreted or avoid it entirely.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/searc ... eceptively

In the case of the review, since it's praising the book I'm going to go with "it appears simple but it is actually complex."

mikey
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Postby mikey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:43 am

See, my default for this is: You're using a modifier to enhance your word choice. So, let's loose the enhancer. "The book is simple."

Like in the above example about the pool. "Deceptively shallow" means it's shallow. It looks like it might not be, but it is. Don't di(v)e...

Certainly, the reviewer (author?) didn't intend to denigrate the book, but the ambiguity goes to the original meaning of the descriptor for me...thus, my ****-eyed glance for a moment...

It also should be noted, this discussion probably outranks whatever blathering **** piles were protesting the book, as I doubt they were this organized...

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:46 am

this entire discussion means I'll never read that book.

Was never going to read the book anyways, but the extra churching it up was unnecessary.

nocera
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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:48 am

I doubt the reviewer intended to cause confusion so that they clearly chose poorly. Maybe instead of saying "deceptively simple" say "the book is more complicated than it may seem." But that doesn't make you look as deceptively intelligent.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:51 am

I feel like it's clear that the adjective describes the true nature of the work, regardless of the adverb. so deceptively simple = simple

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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:55 am

But, I even provided a legit source stating context determines meaning. You're telling me the reviewer writes this sentence intending the meaning to be that the novel appears complex but is simple?
Source of the post Eminently readable and deeply thought-provoking, Evison's deceptively simple novel takes on tough issues such as race, sexual identity, and the crushing weight of American capitalism.
Okay I'm done now.

MR25
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Postby MR25 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:55 am

This seems like a weird hill for either side to die on.

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:57 am

that reviewer could also be an idiot

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Postby dodint » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:57 am

This seems like a weird hill for either side to die on.
Deceptively weird hill.

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Postby nocera » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:59 am

Hey, blame the School Library Journal. Also, are people dying on a hill just by discussing grammar?

mikey
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Postby mikey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:00 pm

I feel like we're just having a discussion...I don't think there are any imminent deaths...

Viva la Ben
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Postby Viva la Ben » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:00 pm

Deceptive hill of word salad.

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:01 pm

an athlete that is “deceptively quick” is quicker than they look (usually that’s a descriptor for a white guy)

MR25
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Postby MR25 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:02 pm

Hey, blame the School Library Journal. Also, are people dying on a hill just by discussing grammar?

Just making a joke about how involved the conversation was getting lol

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Postby dodint » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:02 pm

an athlete that is “deceptively quick” is quicker than they look (usually that’s a descriptor for a white guy)
Probably scrappy, too.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:03 pm

Also, simple and complex can mean different things related to a work of fiction. I think complex can be both good and bad, I don't think you want to make the book unnecessarily complex. The context would seem to say that the author is disguising complex issues within a simple (easily understood) plot.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:04 pm

This wasn't how I expected the thread to go when I posted that news...

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:05 pm

I feel like we're just having a discussion...I don't think there are any imminent deaths...
Bloodlust for the deceptively complex crowd

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Postby mikey » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:08 pm

This wasn't how I expected the thread to go when I posted that news...
Quiet you. This has been both the most civil and most engaging string of posts in this thread in years...

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