Politics And Current Events

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:31 am

So say this is the FISA document that launched the investigation, what happens if it is found to have been severely abused and shouldn’t have been submitted because they broke the law? Do the people that got charged in the investigation have a chance of getting out of prison?
I'd rather wait until the report is released since we only have a selective leak on it's contents. :)

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:34 am

This was clearly leaked in an attempt to counter the disastrous hearings (for Trump) this week.

Viva la Ben
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Postby Viva la Ben » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:34 am

Still waiting on those criminal charges for Andrew McCabe.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:35 am

Page had a background in the Russian energy sector, he was already compromised prior to joining the campaign, but he didn't seem to be involved with anything. It seemed more like he was trying to leverage his position to get a role at Gazprom, he was an anti-sanctions voice on the campaign, but not an effectual actor in this drama.

Papadapolous was over in Europe meeting with Kremlin carve outs and trying to broker a meeting between Trump and Putin. There was a pro-Kremlin Greek politician that he was using as a conduit to be that intermediary with Russia. In that role, meeting pro-Putin figures in Europe where he drew attention from foreign intelligence actors, and in that capacity he was apporached by that dude Misfud who told him about the dirt Russia had.

The argument Papadop is making, is that Misfud was a western intelligence plant who fed false info to Papadop to entrap Putin.

eddy
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Postby eddy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:38 am

When Trump is on Fox and Friends this morning talking about how this FISA thing is the most historic and criminal political scandal of our country, you just know he's just getting out in front of it so it sticks with the base. He just vomited out debunked conspiracy theories for 53 minutes. Just giving his die hard morons fuel, nothing more.

eddy
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Postby eddy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:40 am



even the Fox Friends are like are you sure about this?

NailedPenguin
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Postby NailedPenguin » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:45 am

Eddy coming for Brian Stelter's job at CNN.

eddy
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Postby eddy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:49 am

Not sure who that is, but I'll take his paycheck

MWB
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Postby MWB » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:52 am

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?

eddy
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Postby eddy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:59 am

I try really hard almost every day not to say I hope he dies from a heart attack

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:03 am

In a Kurdish prison.

Viva la Ben
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Postby Viva la Ben » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:07 am


Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:16 am

Image

Tomas
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Postby Tomas » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:37 am

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?
40.5% +/- 0.3% Presidency likelihood during the whole past week (since Nov. 14) despite all the "bombshells" .

https://electionbettingodds.com/

Pretty much the only thing that moved in the last week is the probability Trump will be impeached (from 74% to 80%):

https://electionbettingodds.com/Impeachment_week.html
Last edited by Tomas on Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

NailedPenguin
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Postby NailedPenguin » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:42 am

disastrous hearings (for Trump) this week.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:58 am

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?
40.5% +/- 0.3% Presidency likelihood during the whole past week (since Nov. 14) despite all the "bombshells" .

https://electionbettingodds.com/
Trump being really bad at doing improper/illegal things and surrounding himself with numbskulls is not really surprising, nor shocking to most people who have been exposed to him for 30+ years.

One of the things that is also not all that surprising is how incompetent most GOP folks are. They've been grifting on "conservative" principles for decades while governing as Corproratists and Big Government Tories for a similar length of time. An actual American Right died with Robert Taft.

AuthorTony
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Postby AuthorTony » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:03 am

Hey guys, Epstein DID kill himself. Barr promises it's true.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/attorn ... -screw-ups
Meanwhile, Barr, on Thursday, also sought to tamp down the conspiracy theories surrounding Epstein’s death, with many people questioning whether Epstein really took his own life.

Barr told the Associated Press that the evidence proves that his death was, in fact, by suicide, adding that he personally reviewed security footage that confirmed that no one entered the area where Epstein was housed the night he died.

faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:05 am

disastrous hearings (for Trump) this week.
He's going to be impeached. No big deal. Partisan activity.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:08 am

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?
40.5% +/- 0.3% Presidency likelihood during the whole past week (since Nov. 14) despite all the "bombshells" .

https://electionbettingodds.com/
Trump being really bad at doing improper/illegal things and surrounding himself with numbskulls is not really surprising, nor shocking to most people who have been exposed to him for 30+ years.

One of the things that is also not all that surprising is how incompetent most GOP folks are. They've been grifting on "conservative" principles for decades while governing as Corproratists and Big Government Tories for a similar length of time. An actual American Right died with Robert Taft.
I listened to the Weeds podcast on the groyper/TPUSA feud (for the schadenfreude), but neoliberal shill Matt Yglesias did make one interesting point. With conservatism being rooted in reactionary politics, it's primarily defined by what is against (liberal policies). A segment of online Trump, and increasingly in person Trump folks are trying to make the ugly case for what Trump conservatism is for, that being white nationalism. Which is bad.

Tomas
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Postby Tomas » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:12 am

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?
40.5% +/- 0.3% Presidency likelihood during the whole past week (since Nov. 14) despite all the "bombshells" .

https://electionbettingodds.com/
Trump being really bad at doing improper/illegal things and surrounding himself with numbskulls is not really surprising, nor shocking to most people who have been exposed to him for 30+ years.

One of the things that is also not all that surprising is how incompetent most GOP folks are. They've been grifting on "conservative" principles for decades while governing as Corproratists and Big Government Tories for a similar length of time. An actual American Right died with Robert Taft.
I kind of don't want to get into a profound discussion of Trump, but IMO his first presidential term so far has been extremely efficient.

People who voted for him to get conservative judge(s) on the Supreme Court - delivered.
People who voted for him to cut taxes - delivered
People who voted for him to increase deregulation - delivered
People who voted for him to increase US protectionism - delivered
People who voted for him to increase US isolationism - delivered

All while the by far No. 1 determinant of re-election in all major statistical models covering all possible periods - stock market performance - massively increased.

IMO if a "standard Republican" President was able to deliver all of the above, he/she would be very popular and the re-election chances would be in high 70's-80s....

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:23 am

When Trump is on Fox and Friends this morning talking about how this FISA thing is the most historic and criminal political scandal of our country, you just know he's just getting out in front of it so it sticks with the base. He just vomited out debunked conspiracy theories for 53 minutes. Just giving his die hard morons fuel, nothing more.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/de ... officials/
n summary: this lawyer was “low-level,” was ousted from the FBI after the incident was found out, and the alleged misconduct is troubling enough to be investigated criminally but didn’t affect the “overall validity” of Carter Page surveillance.

It remains to be seen if there will be even larger issues exposed by Horowitz’s report. It’s worth noting that an amusing correction at the bottom of the Washington Post story rubbished a detail that would have only provided more fodder for those who believe the FBI launched an illegal coup to take down the president:

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:03 pm

I assume I know the answer to this, but for the Trump voters in here, and the anti-anti Trumps, has anything changed? For the former, has the needle moved at all where you’d consider not voting for him? For the latter, is he still considered basically no worse than others, or no affect?
40.5% +/- 0.3% Presidency likelihood during the whole past week (since Nov. 14) despite all the "bombshells" .

https://electionbettingodds.com/
Trump being really bad at doing improper/illegal things and surrounding himself with numbskulls is not really surprising, nor shocking to most people who have been exposed to him for 30+ years.

One of the things that is also not all that surprising is how incompetent most GOP folks are. They've been grifting on "conservative" principles for decades while governing as Corproratists and Big Government Tories for a similar length of time. An actual American Right died with Robert Taft.
I kind of don't want to get into a profound discussion of Trump, but IMO his first presidential term so far has been extremely efficient.

People who voted for him to get conservative judge(s) on the Supreme Court - delivered.
People who voted for him to cut taxes - delivered
People who voted for him to increase deregulation - delivered
People who voted for him to increase US protectionism - delivered
People who voted for him to increase US isolationism - delivered

All while the by far No. 1 determinant of re-election in all major statistical models covering all possible periods - stock market performance - massively increased.

IMO if a "standard Republican" President was able to deliver all of the above, he/she would be very popular and the re-election chances would be in high 70's-80s....
I don't disagree with this. You uninvent Twitter and his approval is in the upper 50's and he would sail to reelection.

Though there is good money being made in Never Trumper circles by acting all aghast at his eating his salad with a dessert fork.

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:05 pm

You uninvent Twitter and he isn't even president.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:12 pm

You uninvent Twitter and he isn't even president.
Like 2% of Americans are even on Twitter.

The biggest factor for his election was the billions in free advertising he received from CNN, MSNBC, and FoxNews.

That and "oh gosh" Mitt Romney.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:14 pm

I guess what I'm wondering is do you have people like Nunes and Jordan acting like 2 year olds, or is it all taken much more serious from the Republican side?
The case is presented to the full Senate by Members of the House appointed by the Judiciary Committee to act as what is referred to as 'managers'. The defense I think depends on the rules of procedure the Senate agrees to; in Clinton's case (the only modern example), he was defended by counsel, not someone in government.

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