Politics And Current Events

Kaiser
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Postby Kaiser » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:51 am

Neither of those dumbasses can reach more than a few apples. Should have bought a net.

dodint
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Postby dodint » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:52 am

Or an axe.

Which is kind of what's happening.

I am 14 and this is deep.

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Postby count2infinity » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:04 am

I already thought k-word was taken... isn’t it an insult toward jews?

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Postby shafnutz05 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:13 am

Or an axe.

Which is kind of what's happening.

I am 14 and this is deep.
Or explosives. Tear the whole system down. ;)

NAN
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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:48 am

The whole point with the ladder the other day too was you can add the taller ladders, you can level the tree, but if the kid on the right refuses to climb it, then you can make all the changes and give all the tools in the world and it won't matter.

It takes efforts from both/all sides to make it work. Some people just want to focus on one side and ignore the other.

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Postby count2infinity » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:59 am

The whole point with the ladder the other day too was you can add the taller ladders, you can level the tree, but if the kid on the right refuses to climb it, then you can make all the changes and give all the tools in the world and it won't matter.

It takes efforts from both/all sides to make it work. Some people just want to focus on one side and ignore the other.
You realize in this example, you're suggesting that black people and other minorities are just lazy, yes? "All the ladders are there for you to be like me... just climb them, why you complaining so much about my golden escalator?"

MR25
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Postby MR25 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:06 am

They really should have just put a fence in the graphic.

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Postby genoscoif » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:14 am

The whole point with the ladder the other day too was you can add the taller ladders, you can level the tree, but if the kid on the right refuses to climb it, then you can make all the changes and give all the tools in the world and it won't matter.

It takes efforts from both/all sides to make it work. Some people just want to focus on one side and ignore the other.
You realize in this example, you're suggesting that black people and other minorities are just lazy, yes? "All the ladders are there for you to be like me... just climb them, why you complaining so much about my golden escalator?"
Woof. Maybe they're afraid of heights. Maybe they don't know how to climb. Maybe they've never seen a ladder. Maybe they don't trust who built it. And, yeah, maybe some just are happy where they are. That's where the hands reaching down come in.

The 'lazy' comment is just, well, lazy. It's projecting a negative tone into what's meant to be positive discussion about how to help. There is nothing patronizing in saying 'we will do whatever we can to help fix this, but you have to be willing to fix this too.' It's kinda how sh*t works.

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Postby count2infinity » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:17 am

Again... the suggestion is that they don't want anything better and that the ladder is already there. That is not the case at all.

NAN
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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:18 am

The whole point with the ladder the other day too was you can add the taller ladders, you can level the tree, but if the kid on the right refuses to climb it, then you can make all the changes and give all the tools in the world and it won't matter.

It takes efforts from both/all sides to make it work. Some people just want to focus on one side and ignore the other.
You realize in this example, you're suggesting that black people and other minorities are just lazy, yes? "All the ladders are there for you to be like me... just climb them, why you complaining so much about my golden escalator?"
Some are, just like some white people are that don't want to help themselves. There are plenty of black people and other minorities that take advantage of the ladder and do well.

But overall what I'm saying is black communities need to also clean up the black on black crime, gangs, etc. That culture is not helping.

Some people just want to focus and have tunnel vision on one thing and not view the wholelistic picture of what needs fixed.

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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:19 am

The 'lazy' comment is just, well, lazy. It's projecting a negative tone into what's meant to be positive discussion about how to help. There is nothing patronizing in saying 'we will do whatever we can to help fix this, but you have to be willing to fix this too.' It's kinda how sh*t works.
:fist:

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:41 am


count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:42 am

:thumb:

MWB
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Postby MWB » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:20 am

The whole point with the ladder the other day too was you can add the taller ladders, you can level the tree, but if the kid on the right refuses to climb it, then you can make all the changes and give all the tools in the world and it won't matter.

It takes efforts from both/all sides to make it work. Some people just want to focus on one side and ignore the other.
You realize in this example, you're suggesting that black people and other minorities are just lazy, yes? "All the ladders are there for you to be like me... just climb them, why you complaining so much about my golden escalator?"
Some are, just like some white people are that don't want to help themselves. There are plenty of black people and other minorities that take advantage of the ladder and do well.

But overall what I'm saying is black communities need to also clean up the black on black crime, gangs, etc. That culture is not helping.

Some people just want to focus and have tunnel vision on one thing and not view the wholelistic picture of what needs fixed.
There is no doubt that black on black crime is a huge issue. I believe it stems from poverty, and really isn’t so much a race thing as a poor thing. If you are poor and in an inner city, sometimes your option for family is a gang. Another option is the drug route, either affiliated to a gang or not. That brings stability, money, and structure that may be lacking at home (which is another issue in itself). Kids are hugely influenced by the people around them, so if they grow up seeing it as the path, it becomes accepted for them, even if society as a whole knows it’s a bad path. One study in Boston (obviously just one study in one place, so take it for what its worth) looked at the homicides from 2000-2013 involving blacks. 55% were related to gangs; 16% were related to drugs; 15% personal arguments. Gangs and personal arguments will, more often than not, be black in black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, or white in white.

So the question becomes how do you end gang and drug violence? Legalizing drugs may help with part of that. Having a strong nuclear family would probably be very helpful. Making kids realize there’s more in the world than what they see in the streets would be great. Tell kids they can get a better job than their parents if they stay in school. The problem is, how do we make those things happen? What tangible things can be done? Getting to the roots of the issue and addressing black on black crime isn’t as easy as just telling people to not shoot each other.

As I said before, I think it’s a poverty issue. However, blacks are 2-3 times more likely to live in poverty than whites. So that higher poverty level is going to lead to a higher crime rate.

I don’t think focusing on one aspect means that people think the other doesn’t exist. The disparities issue is easier to identify and relatively easier to address, and has improved. So it’s not that surprising that people focus more on the clearer, easier to address issue.

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Postby Troy Loney » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:34 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... latest-fbi

JFC, finally
Ghislaine Maxwell, the British socialite and close friend of sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, has been arrested by the FBI, NBC News has reported.

“She was arrested on the east coast on Epstein-related charges and is expected to appear in a federal court later today,” the report said.

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Postby Morkle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:48 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... latest-fbi

JFC, finally
Ghislaine Maxwell, the British socialite and close friend of sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, has been arrested by the FBI, NBC News has reported.

“She was arrested on the east coast on Epstein-related charges and is expected to appear in a federal court later today,” the report said.
And all of a sudden, Barr/Trump trying to remove the SDNY US Attorney comes into view as they were in on the investigation as well.

PFiDC
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Postby PFiDC » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:49 am

Welp she's dead

NAN
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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:21 am

There is no doubt that black on black crime is a huge issue. I believe it stems from poverty, and really isn’t so much a race thing as a poor thing. If you are poor and in an inner city, sometimes your option for family is a gang. Another option is the drug route, either affiliated to a gang or not. That brings stability, money, and structure that may be lacking at home (which is another issue in itself). Kids are hugely influenced by the people around them, so if they grow up seeing it as the path, it becomes accepted for them, even if society as a whole knows it’s a bad path. One study in Boston (obviously just one study in one place, so take it for what its worth) looked at the homicides from 2000-2013 involving blacks. 55% were related to gangs; 16% were related to drugs; 15% personal arguments. Gangs and personal arguments will, more often than not, be black in black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, or white in white.

So the question becomes how do you end gang and drug violence? Legalizing drugs may help with part of that. Having a strong nuclear family would probably be very helpful. Making kids realize there’s more in the world than what they see in the streets would be great. Tell kids they can get a better job than their parents if they stay in school. The problem is, how do we make those things happen? What tangible things can be done? Getting to the roots of the issue and addressing black on black crime isn’t as easy as just telling people to not shoot each other.

As I said before, I think it’s a poverty issue. However, blacks are 2-3 times more likely to live in poverty than whites. So that higher poverty level is going to lead to a higher crime rate.

I don’t think focusing on one aspect means that people think the other doesn’t exist. The disparities issue is easier to identify and relatively easier to address, and has improved. So it’s not that surprising that people focus more on the clearer, easier to address issue.
Don't disagree with anything you are saying. And yes, the fix is not easy at all. But to me, I think if you have BLM, or some other black equality group also focus on the inner cities, where you are correct, is mostly black, but driven by poverty, it is going to be more effective than some white dude from the burbs going in and saying "this life is bad".

You see in some of these BLM protests black protesters calling black officers judas, or other black individuals standing up against the violence, etc the same. This is where the community needs to work together.

And yes, I know this is driven from years of oppression and it's a vicsious cycle. But at some point, that cycle needs to be broken if it is ever going to be fixed.

And society (whites, government, etc) need to continue to do their part to create systemic equality and opportunities as well. It is a team effort from all sides.

If people only focus on the simple, clearer fixes, the overall issue will never be resolved. It takes working on the complex issues as well to truly make an impact.

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Postby MWB » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 am

We don’t “come together” to fix anything though. We can say that the black community should come together and do something about black on black crime, but it’s something that very, very rarely happens in this country, regardless of race... a large group coming together to fix a common problem. Too many theories, too many fixes, too many conflicting views. And I do agree with you, I just don’t know how it happens.

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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:42 am

We don’t “come together” to fix anything though. We can say that the black community should come together and do something about black on black crime, but it’s something that very, very rarely happens in this country, regardless of race... a large group coming together to fix a common problem. Too many theories, too many fixes, too many conflicting views. And I do agree with you, I just don’t know how it happens.
Yep, agree, much easier said than done. To your point, this board is a microcosim of society. 350M people all with different views on how to fix things. It is extremely complex.

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Postby nocera » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:48 am

Why can't this be two separate conversations? Why is it "well, if you want to stop police brutality and defund the police, you should stop crime in your community." Why not both? That'd be like if it were white people who were being brutalized/murdered by cops and the response was "well, yeah, but suicide is one of the top ten causes of death for white people. Why don't white people stop other white people from killing themselves first?"

All I'm saying is I agree that it is a problem, but they don't have to be tied to each other.

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Postby MWB » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:52 am

Definitely. Which is why I don’t really follow the line of thinking that BLM should “look in their own house.” It was an organization formed for a specific reason and focus.

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:00 am

Definitely. Which is why I don’t really follow the line of thinking that BLM should “look in their own house.” It was an organization formed for a specific reason and focus.
BLM has expanded their territory to something much greater than just calling out police brutality

In their “about” this is the second paragraph
In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.
That’s very open ended

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Postby NAN » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:18 am

Why can't this be two separate conversations? Why is it "well, if you want to stop police brutality and defund the police, you should stop crime in your community." Why not both? That'd be like if it were white people who were being brutalized/murdered by cops and the response was "well, yeah, but suicide is one of the top ten causes of death for white people. Why don't white people stop other white people from killing themselves first?"

All I'm saying is I agree that it is a problem, but they don't have to be tied to each other.
Considering crime and police are intertwined, I think they are more related than suicide.

That said, when shad or someone else brings up the "in house" stuff in a separate conversation, we are told it's not worth the conversation or are called racist.

And to say BLM is singularly focused on police brutality is false as well.

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Postby MWB » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:19 am

And if they choose to go in the direction of addressing black on black violence, good for them. But they can address issues they want. I think it’s a cop out to say they’re not addressing an issue your or I want them to.

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