Politics And Current Events

MWB
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Postby MWB » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:24 pm

I don't think any of the Franken accusers have been punished.
I know I'm coming off flippant here and MWB will be by to kick me in the nuts later. I want to be clear that I'm not advocating for putting sexual assault victims on trial or in a position where they feel they may be punished if no one believes them. However, when it rises to the level of the Avenatti stuff there should be some kind of remedy available for the accused.
You think too highly of me, lol. While I think accusers should be heard and taken seriously, I’ve also said that any false accusations should be punished as much as possible. We agree on this issue on many levels.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:30 pm

I think the most accurate comment that I've seen, and I think it applies to the public discussion around both the Franken and the Kavanuagh accusations. That being, that our current national discourse, nor the media coverage, are capable of processing these stories.
Agreed. What happened to Weinstein is undoubtedly a good thing, and it was a long time coming. It does feel, however, that the movement has been hijacked by the extremists and it looks more like the Spanish Inquisition than any meaningful and fair pursuit of justice. I'm no fan of Franken and I certainly had some fun with that story, but he did get a sht deal. You can't live your life in fear of being falsely accused like some people do, but there's a lot of common sense precautions that are worth taking.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:46 pm

the franken and kavanaugh issues don't read as #metoo stories. it's partisan politics taking advantage of the current climate.

i also don't know to what extent this has crept into the real world. i haven't heard of anyone around me personally impacted. there's a sexual harassment scandal in my town's school district that just came up, but the details are pretty damning. this would be an example of how the "movement" is certainly not all bad. i also don't weep for celebrities and cancel culture. the public seems to have a decent gauge here. aziz ansari suffered personal embarrassment, but everyone is still cool with him. louis CK is gross but not a criminal, and has been treated accordingly by how it's impacted his career. spacey isn't a target of a witch hunt. he admitted to his problems. i'd call all of this "unfair", but i'm just not about to lose sleep over the reputations of strangers who don't actually need to ever work again.

do i think there's justice across the board? no, and i have some worries about my son as he gets older. but the norm is still people in college getting drunk, mashing their parts together, and everyone moves on, while old suburban people like me just live our lives on the sidelines. this, like most things, is overly represented on social media and sure - on campuses. and hey - maybe a SCOTUS candidate shouldn't do everything he can to seem like a plausible date rapist when given a microphone. that could be a place to start the healing.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:49 pm

I think the most accurate comment that I've seen, and I think it applies to the public discussion around both the Franken and the Kavanuagh accusations. That being, that our current national discourse, nor the media coverage, are capable of processing these stories.
Agreed. What happened to Weinstein is undoubtedly a good thing, and it was a long time coming. It does feel, however, that the movement has been hijacked by the extremists and it looks more like the Spanish Inquisition than any meaningful and fair pursuit of justice. I'm no fan of Franken and I certainly had some fun with that story, but he did get a sht deal. You can't live your life in fear of being falsely accused like some people do, but there's a lot of common sense precautions that are worth taking.
I'm not even sure it's falsely accused that's the issue. It's taking a relatively benign encounter and framing in the metoo lens. I mean, it's like how are you going to include Biden and George W. in the same galaxy as someone like Weinstein? With regards to Kavanaugh, I do tend to believe that the Blasey-Ford thing happened at some level, but I am also not near the opinion that it was really at all relevant to the confirmation hearing, and also the story about him flashing a girl in a dorm room, we should be able to talk about that in the sense that that's what 20 year old dudes do. Consider that I'm reading that 2000's NYC music scene book that is a collection of first person testimonials organized by a female journalist at the time. They outline the running joke that Albert Hammond Jr's thing was pulling his balls out all the time, and the women recounting the story all seemed to think it was the funniest thing on earth. It doesn't excuse it, but we can't approach these stories as complete nitwits, in that, it's obviously 100% true, and it obviously 100% means nothing.

The Aziz Ansari thing is also a pretty great illustration of all of this too. There is a story to be told that men in power should't exploit that for sex with vulnerable people. But there's also a need to not use the public sphere to air dirty laundry about a private encounter. Like, the thing with Ansari and Franken, there is definitely a place for those women to approach those men out of the public sphere and address the problems they had with those encounters. It's fully their right to feel violated and abused, but these instances are nowhere near approaching a crime, you can't exploit the environment in this way.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:30 pm

I think the most accurate comment that I've seen, and I think it applies to the public discussion around both the Franken and the Kavanuagh accusations. That being, that our current national discourse, nor the media coverage, are capable of processing these stories.
Agreed. What happened to Weinstein is undoubtedly a good thing, and it was a long time coming. It does feel, however, that the movement has been hijacked by the extremists and it looks more like the Spanish Inquisition than any meaningful and fair pursuit of justice. I'm no fan of Franken and I certainly had some fun with that story, but he did get a sht deal. You can't live your life in fear of being falsely accused like some people do, but there's a lot of common sense precautions that are worth taking.
I'm not even sure it's falsely accused that's the issue. It's taking a relatively benign encounter and framing in the metoo lens. I mean, it's like how are you going to include Biden and George W. in the same galaxy as someone like Weinstein? With regards to Kavanaugh, I do tend to believe that the Blasey-Ford thing happened at some level, but I am also not near the opinion that it was really at all relevant to the confirmation hearing, and also the story about him flashing a girl in a dorm room, we should be able to talk about that in the sense that that's what 20 year old dudes do. Consider that I'm reading that 2000's NYC music scene book that is a collection of first person testimonials organized by a female journalist at the time. They outline the running joke that Albert Hammond Jr's thing was pulling his balls out all the time, and the women recounting the story all seemed to think it was the funniest thing on earth. It doesn't excuse it, but we can't approach these stories as complete nitwits, in that, it's obviously 100% true, and it obviously 100% means nothing.

The Aziz Ansari thing is also a pretty great illustration of all of this too. There is a story to be told that men in power should't exploit that for sex with vulnerable people. But there's also a need to not use the public sphere to air dirty laundry about a private encounter. Like, the thing with Ansari and Franken, there is definitely a place for those women to approach those men out of the public sphere and address the problems they had with those encounters. It's fully their right to feel violated and abused, but these instances are nowhere near approaching a crime, you can't exploit the environment in this way.
That's well said. Awkward sexual encounters have been happening since the dawn of civilization. Sometimes, awkward moments are just that...awkward moments. Everything doesn't have to have malicious intent.

Willie Kool
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Postby Willie Kool » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:53 pm

WK is really the only one here disputing the Franken allegations, but we are all pinko partisan hacks. ;)
VINDICATED

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:36 pm


Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:45 pm

Did they not know this was happening? Why even schedule the meeting in the first place?

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:50 pm

I imagine that Pence's team did not organize the event, they were probably just alerted last minute that this guy taking part is a drug dealer.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:25 pm

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... l-campaign
Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman met with top figures in Ukraine and set up meetings for Giuliani in an attempt to gather information to use in the 2020 presidential election, according to the publication.

Their activities included pushing Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, who is the current front-runner in the Democratic primary. The report also says that Ukrainian officials planned to intercede on former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s behalf in the 2016 election by leaking information on Trump’s then-campaign chairman, Paul Manafort.

In March, about a month after a meeting with Parnas, Fruman and Giuliani, prosecutors in Kiev announced they would investigate certain officials in connection with trying to rig the election for Clinton, which Trump himself touted in an interview with Fox News.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:59 pm

That reads like a cross between Dumb & Dumber/Borat.

Sam's Drunk Dog
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:29 pm

Jane Mayer’s Far-Too-Late Defense of Al Franken Shows Just How Broken the News Media Really Is

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/jane-m ... -really-is

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:01 pm

Mediaite does not like that I like ad blockers, so I can't read the article. But if that John Ziegler is the conservative SoCal talk radio host, he is a bit of a twit.

That has no real bearing on the content of his commentary, or Franken. Just saying.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:29 pm

So... Boris Johnson, eh?

willeyeam
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Postby willeyeam » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:36 pm

his wiki says he has 5 or 6 kids

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:53 pm

They should be very easy to identify.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Throughout the last 3 years, I think Europe has been behind the curve, not ahead of it - as far as this sort of wacky buffoonery goes. It’s coming for them, too.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:03 pm

his wiki says he has 5 or 6 kids
When you're that much sheer man, you probably have a ship in every port and can easily lose track of such things.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:06 pm

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2019 ... age/224302
​EARHARDT: ​It's meant to help you get your start. We were all in high school​, we were in college, ​​when we had these​ ​​waiting -- when I was waiting tables. ​Unless you're at a very fine restaurant, ​most of those people, at the fine restaurants, that is their career​.​​​ ​B​ut they make ​tons of money. If you're working at ​a ​McDonald's or a small little restaurant​ where you're making tips​, you​'​re right. If you​'​re nice to the people, you make a lot of money.
The network of the working class.

Morkle
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Postby Morkle » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:35 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... story.html

Seems like a twist.
Former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has asked the House Judiciary Committee to allow one of his top deputies to testify with him on Wednesday, going against the wishes of Justice Department officials and creating an air of uncertainty a day before the much-anticipated hearing.

The last-minute request comes days after Justice Department officials convinced two Mueller deputies to cancel private testimony for House Democrats following the former special counsel’s session, according to a congressional official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely discuss private conversations.

Now, Democrats are considering allowing Aaron Zebley, counsel to Mueller, to testify in public alongside him.

Mueller made the request in the last 24 hours or so, though what will happen is decidedly unclear, an individual familiar with the matter said. The Justice Department did not authorize Zebley to testify and objects to his doing so, said the individual, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share private deliberations.

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:36 pm

So... Boris Johnson, eh?
Image

Kane
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Postby Kane » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:57 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... story.html

Seems like a twist.
Former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has asked the House Judiciary Committee to allow one of his top deputies to testify with him on Wednesday, going against the wishes of Justice Department officials and creating an air of uncertainty a day before the much-anticipated hearing.

The last-minute request comes days after Justice Department officials convinced two Mueller deputies to cancel private testimony for House Democrats following the former special counsel’s session, according to a congressional official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely discuss private conversations.

Now, Democrats are considering allowing Aaron Zebley, counsel to Mueller, to testify in public alongside him.

Mueller made the request in the last 24 hours or so, though what will happen is decidedly unclear, an individual familiar with the matter said. The Justice Department did not authorize Zebley to testify and objects to his doing so, said the individual, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share private deliberations.
It seems like the aide won't be sworn in, and will just be there to verify things with Mueller.

CBear3
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Postby CBear3 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:00 am

Are you ready for a Partisan Circus!?!?!?!? -Michael Buffer

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:12 am

“Respectfully”

NAN
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Postby NAN » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:18 am

I'm relying on you guys for updates and summaries.

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