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Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:11 pm

Ooh, look, another person unwilling to go under oath to attest to their knowledge.
Just like the accuser.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:15 pm

She's said she's willing to testify under oath after an investigation. That's the normal run of play here.

And presumably she has been advised by her attorney that lying to the FBI is a federal crime (as we've seen many times thanks to the Mueller investigation). So as she's specifically asking for an FBI investigation, she can't be too terribly afraid of perjury.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:19 pm

Susan Collins evidently has had enough.
I hope that Dr. Ford will reconsider and testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday. It is my understanding that the Committee has offered to hold either a public or a private session, whichever would make her more comfortable.
https://twitter.com/SenatorCollins/stat ... 4509598721
In Maine radio interview, @SenatorCollins says of Dr Ford: "much to my surprise it now appears she’s turning down all 3 options even though her attorney said earlier this week that she would come testify."

"I just don’t understand why the hearing shouldn’t go forth," she says.
https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1 ... 3776294912

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:23 pm

More from Collins:
COLLINS on Dr Ford: "I don’t think she can reject, having had made all of these serious allegations, I don’t think she can reject all those options because otherwise there are these very serious allegations hanging over the head of a nominee who has emphatically denied them."
https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1 ... 3092794368

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:26 pm

More from Collins:
COLLINS on Dr Ford: "I don’t think she can reject, having had made all of these serious allegations, I don’t think she can reject all those options because otherwise there are these very serious allegations hanging over the head of a nominee who has emphatically denied them."
https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1 ... 3092794368
The damage is done and the objective has been accomplished...she can ride off into the sunset at this point.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:46 pm

More from Collins:
COLLINS on Dr Ford: "I don’t think she can reject, having had made all of these serious allegations, I don’t think she can reject all those options because otherwise there are these very serious allegations hanging over the head of a nominee who has emphatically denied them."
https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1 ... 3092794368
The damage is done and the objective has been accomplished...she can ride off into the sunset at this point.
Assuming she is making a false accusation, because otherwise the damage was done when Kavanaugh and Judge decided to try and rape her.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:51 pm

The part that upsets me about this revealing is the Dems don't give a flying hoot about Dr. Ford. They don't want to get justice for if what she is claiming is true, they just want to use her as a prop to keep Kavanaugh out. At least Republicans are upfront about not caring, Dems pretend.
The part that upsets you is democrats believing this woman because it's politically advantageous, as opposed to attacking a potential rape victim because it's politically advantageous.

Until we've lived in the slippery slope world where every man is subject to being ostracized for made up sexual assault allegations, I'm much more inclined to believe these women that come forward than not, and wait to express sympathy for the poor men like Brett Kavanaugh that have to deal with the aftermath of the accusation.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:57 pm

So Kavanaugh deserves to go down as some kind of "leveling" act for past malfeasence?

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:58 pm

The part that upsets me about this revealing is the Dems don't give a flying hoot about Dr. Ford. They don't want to get justice for if what she is claiming is true, they just want to use her as a prop to keep Kavanaugh out. At least Republicans are upfront about not caring, Dems pretend.
The part that upsets you is democrats believing this woman because it's politically advantageous, as opposed to attacking a potential rape victim because it's politically advantageous.

Until we've lived in the slippery slope world where every man is subject to being ostracized for made up sexual assault allegations, I'm much more inclined to believe these women that come forward than not, and wait to express sympathy for the poor men like Brett Kavanaugh that have to deal with the aftermath of the accusation.
So guilty until proven innocent. Hopefully you never deal with a situation like that.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm

In the post-#metoo climate, I too wonder if Feinstein miscalculated this move. Like Freddy said, I wouldn't be surprised if even the whiff of malfeasance would be enough to send him packing. I also think the pendulum has started to swing back a bit, in terms of the "guilty until proven innocent" mantra of #metoo.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:07 pm

The part that upsets me about this revealing is the Dems don't give a flying hoot about Dr. Ford. They don't want to get justice for if what she is claiming is true, they just want to use her as a prop to keep Kavanaugh out. At least Republicans are upfront about not caring, Dems pretend.
The part that upsets you is democrats believing this woman because it's politically advantageous, as opposed to attacking a potential rape victim because it's politically advantageous.

Until we've lived in the slippery slope world where every man is subject to being ostracized for made up sexual assault allegations, I'm much more inclined to believe these women that come forward than not, and wait to express sympathy for the poor men like Brett Kavanaugh that have to deal with the aftermath of the accusation.
So guilty until proven innocent. Hopefully you never deal with a situation like that.
lol, I can promise that I won't have to deal with being accused of sexual assault.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:08 pm

Pride goeth before the fall...

MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:12 pm

Since when is an uncorroborated (and explicitly denied) accusation "substantial evidence that the applicant committed a crime"?
Shouldn’t the background check be done to determine if there is substantial evidence?

NAN
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Postby NAN » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:12 pm

The part that upsets me about this revealing is the Dems don't give a flying hoot about Dr. Ford. They don't want to get justice for if what she is claiming is true, they just want to use her as a prop to keep Kavanaugh out. At least Republicans are upfront about not caring, Dems pretend.
The part that upsets you is democrats believing this woman because it's politically advantageous, as opposed to attacking a potential rape victim because it's politically advantageous.

Until we've lived in the slippery slope world where every man is subject to being ostracized for made up sexual assault allegations, I'm much more inclined to believe these women that come forward than not, and wait to express sympathy for the poor men like Brett Kavanaugh that have to deal with the aftermath of the accusation.
So guilty until proven innocent. Hopefully you never deal with a situation like that.
:thumb:

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:14 pm

lol, I can promise that I won't have to deal with being accused of sexual assault.
I hereby accuse Troy Loney of sexual assault. He totally attacked me at a party that occurred 36 years ago. I can't remember where or when that happened, and I won't testify about it unless the FBI does an investigation first, but it totally happened and you should all believe me.

There, now you have been.
Last edited by Shyster on Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:16 pm

If this was a criminal trial, innocent before proven guilty would apply. But as a normal person, I don't apply that legal principle to unrelated aspects of life.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm

That's scary. Seriously?

Lemon Berry Lobster
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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm

The part that upsets me about this revealing is the Dems don't give a flying hoot about Dr. Ford. They don't want to get justice for if what she is claiming is true, they just want to use her as a prop to keep Kavanaugh out. At least Republicans are upfront about not caring, Dems pretend.
The part that upsets you is democrats believing this woman because it's politically advantageous, as opposed to attacking a potential rape victim because it's politically advantageous.

Until we've lived in the slippery slope world where every man is subject to being ostracized for made up sexual assault allegations, I'm much more inclined to believe these women that come forward than not, and wait to express sympathy for the poor men like Brett Kavanaugh that have to deal with the aftermath of the accusation.
Feinstein had this information for months and waited to release it. This should have been front and center the second Kavanaugh was selected, unless the nomination was before she received the information. You also believe that all these people remember the party and alleged event yet none of this came up one time in any one of the 6 FBI investigations?

Accusations now are somehow proof and you must prove you're innocent. Both parties should be questioned about the events under oath, and possibly connected to a polygraph. The he said/she said media frenzy is only going to continue with no new information provided other than random people coming out for one side or the other.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:18 pm

Well, I was six weeks old and can't remember anything. So I can't deny the allegation.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:24 pm



Feinstein had this information for months and waited to release it. This should have been front and center the second Kavanaugh was selected, unless the nomination was before she received the information. You also believe that all these people remember the party and alleged event yet none of this came up one time in any one of the 6 FBI investigations?

Accusations now are somehow proof and you must prove you're innocent. Both parties should be questioned about the events under oath, and possibly connected to a polygraph. The he said/she said media frenzy is only going to continue with no new information provided other than random people coming out for one side or the other.
Feinstein didn't think the accusation was enough to bring up in the public hearing. The accusation was made after the nomination. It was other democrats, upon being made aware of the accusation that forced Feinstein to make the accusation public.

The prudent thing definitely would have been to forward to the FBI upon hearing of the allegation so it could have been properly reviewed prior to the hearing.

And again, I don't hink Brett K should face criminal repercussions. I don't think this has any bearing on this hearing. But I don't think this woman should be attacked for coming out with this allegation. For all she knew, there were other women that he did this too. Now in this case, it was at worst an isolated incident.

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:26 pm

Since when is an uncorroborated (and explicitly denied) accusation "substantial evidence that the applicant committed a crime"?

Shouldn’t the background check be done to determine if there is substantial evidence?

So they need to conduct an investigation to see whether there is any basis to conduct an investigation?

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:27 pm



Feinstein had this information for months and waited to release it. This should have been front and center the second Kavanaugh was selected, unless the nomination was before she received the information. You also believe that all these people remember the party and alleged event yet none of this came up one time in any one of the 6 FBI investigations?

Accusations now are somehow proof and you must prove you're innocent. Both parties should be questioned about the events under oath, and possibly connected to a polygraph. The he said/she said media frenzy is only going to continue with no new information provided other than random people coming out for one side or the other.
Feinstein didn't think the accusation was enough to bring up in the public hearing. The accusation was made after the nomination. It was other democrats, upon being made aware of the accusation that forced Feinstein to make the accusation public.

The prudent thing definitely would have been to forward to the FBI upon hearing of the allegation so it could have been properly reviewed prior to the hearing.

And again, I don't hink Brett K should face criminal repercussions. I don't think this has any bearing on this hearing. But I don't think this woman should be attacked for coming out with this allegation. For all she knew, there were other women that he did this too. Now in this case, it was at worst an isolated incident.
So you think the accusations are enough to deem him guilty but don't want him to face criminal repercussions?

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:30 pm



Feinstein had this information for months and waited to release it. This should have been front and center the second Kavanaugh was selected, unless the nomination was before she received the information. You also believe that all these people remember the party and alleged event yet none of this came up one time in any one of the 6 FBI investigations?

Accusations now are somehow proof and you must prove you're innocent. Both parties should be questioned about the events under oath, and possibly connected to a polygraph. The he said/she said media frenzy is only going to continue with no new information provided other than random people coming out for one side or the other.
Feinstein didn't think the accusation was enough to bring up in the public hearing. The accusation was made after the nomination. It was other democrats, upon being made aware of the accusation that forced Feinstein to make the accusation public.

The prudent thing definitely would have been to forward to the FBI upon hearing of the allegation so it could have been properly reviewed prior to the hearing.

And again, I don't hink Brett K should face criminal repercussions. I don't think this has any bearing on this hearing. But I don't think this woman should be attacked for coming out with this allegation. For all she knew, there were other women that he did this too. Now in this case, it was at worst an isolated incident.
The FBI already declared they have no intention of investigating as they have no basis in which to conduct one.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:34 pm

So now everyone knew about it?
NEW: A former schoolmate of Dr. Ford writes on social media that she recalls the alleged Kavanaugh assault incident being discussed at their school, but adds that she has no first-hand information to corroborate the accuser's claims.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MSNBC/status ... 7677794304

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:40 pm



So you think the accusations are enough to deem him guilty but don't want him to face criminal repercussions?
Guilt or innocence are irrelevant. I have no reason to think the woman is lying. I believe he probably did something untoward to this woman a long time ago. Whether that was coming on a little too forceful, or doing what the woman alleged, that will of course never be known, and we don't need to know, because this should not be litigated, nor should it impact this hearing.

That said, I do have a problem with people accusing the woman of making this up. She made the accusation in July, well before the hearings and it should have been part of any background check, and if this behavior was something other than an isolated act from Kavanaugh, it likely would have been revealed. But absent that, it coming out now is a political move from the dems, but at the same time, is keeping that allegation a secret really the best course? We just had this public spectacle and public outpouring from all walks of this guys left talking about what a super guy he is. Imagine what that must have been like for this woman?

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