Politics And Current Events

[Freddy Rumsen]

I'm saying that Bush and Obama arguably did as bad or worse things (see Iraq and Libya/drone campaign), but because the Orange Man is a garbage person in his personal/online behavior, whereas the other two had decorum and the backing of the "serious people" we are where we are.

The Democrats were looking for a way to impeach since November 2016, and after Russia/Mueller didn't work out Trump and his bumbling fool compatriots gave them an impeachable Ukraine dish on a silver platter.

But I don't by all the histrionics from Pelosi, Nadler, etc... that this is some "grave" and "somber" "danger to democracy".

They aren't taking this anymore seriously than Cruz or whatever Republicans you want to name.

[grunthy]

Schiff is actually pretty good at this imo but I'm not sure if it will matter or not

I watched it, glad that he addressed the core issue here. Definitely goes against the whole "we need the evidence, and we need the docucments" stuff they've been saying for weeks.

To paraphrase, "He did it, everyone knows he did it. And yes, this absolutely warrants removal, and this is why..."

There is no separation for him between his political and financial interests, and those of his actual job.

Trump’s financial interests are a direct path, all other politicians just take bribes, sorry donations, and sham book deals to promote their financial interests indirectly.

[Viva la Ben]

I hope my kids outgrown the “xxxx did it first” excuse.

[grunthy]

I am curious for the anti-anti trumpers in here... Your assertion is that Trump definitely did all these things, but either they are not impeachable/not a big deal or you just don't care, correct? Is there still anyone out there saying he didn't do any of the stuff the Dems are claiming he did?

Considering the Dems have done most of the things, in some fashion, trump did, I’m not sure I can take either side seriously when it comes to this trial.

(Not a trump supporter)

You’re like Fox News that keeps pushing fake narratives in mass quantity so people start believing them.

Impeachable yes, removal no.

[grunthy]

I hope my kids outgrown the “xxxx did it first” excuse.

Dems never outgrow that nor blaming all the worlds problems on everyone else.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I hope my kids outgrown the “xxxx did it first” excuse.

Trump deserves to be impeached.

[count2infinity]

Impeachable yes, removal no.

Where do you draw that line? Or I suppose a better question: is there a way to draw that line that isn't political? I'm guessing no, since impeachment is a political process.

[grunthy]

Impeachable yes, removal no.

Where do you draw that line? Or I suppose a better question: is there a way to draw that line that isn't political? I'm guessing no, since impeachment is a political process.

Removal isn’t warranted when attacking another politician (since I believe most of not all are corrupt), especially when it could have been done by the RNC or DNC to find the dirt or initiate things. The impeachable offense is using the government resources for it.

Removal is warranted under illegally targeting American citizens, commanding illegal orders for military operations that could cause legitimate war or war crimes, and etc.

[Troy Loney]

Administering foreign policy in the method Trump has is impeachable, there's no "whatabboutism" for that.

I can't imagine caring about what reason the obstinate right has for denying that reality.

[count2infinity]

I'm still sort of confused on "impeachable but not removal" part. A lot of time was spent by some posters ITT saying how ridiculous this entire process is when the outcome is already known. How big of a waste of time and money this all is, only to agree with the likely outcome of impeached but not removed?

[NailedPenguin]

Shady politicians doing shady political shtt didn't start 3 years ago. It's why damn near every day with every thing that happens you have to hear "xxxx did it too." Are those things just worse because Trump? Some people just don't agree with that. After 2 years of #MuellerTime led by the Universe's Top Cop came up with nothing, you now want people to care about effing Ukraine? I'm talking actual people. People who's lives haven't been 24/7 dTrUMPH since the day he announced his candidacy. Nothing should have even been entertained after we were told Mueller was going to finish it one way or the other. Then it was just on to the next thing. After 400 strikes you're not going to sell people on removing a sitting president with "he asked Ukraine for a favor." Its not everyone else's fault that they've checked out for the 401st attempt.

[grunthy]

Administering foreign policy in the method Trump has is impeachable, there's no "whatabboutism" for that.

I can't imagine caring about what reason the obstinate right has for denying that reality.

I said how he did it was impeachable. He should have let the RNC contact Ukraine like the DNC did, then all would be ok.

[Troy Loney]

I'm still sort of confused on "impeachable but not removal" part. A lot of time was spent by some posters ITT saying how ridiculous this entire process is when the outcome is already known. How big of a waste of time and money this all is, only to agree with the likely outcome of impeached but not removed?

Pundit brain, seeing things only in terms of political impact, or on the opinions of the "undecided voter"

[count2infinity]

So it's public opinion that keeps him in office, not the rule of law?

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Trump is a lot like a Rick Pitino coached basketball team. Pitino's teams always played really physical defense, and Pitino's philosophy was basically "the refs cant/wont call a foul on every play, so we will just foul every play and you cant do anything about it".

Likewise, trump breaks rules and norms all the time, so he can say and do blatantly offensive/wrong/illegal things and get away with it.

[grunthy]

I'm still sort of confused on "impeachable but not removal" part. A lot of time was spent by some posters ITT saying how ridiculous this entire process is when the outcome is already known. How big of a waste of time and money this all is, only to agree with the likely outcome of impeached but not removed?

Pundit brain, seeing things only in terms of political impact, or on the opinions of the "undecided voter"

Most of what you spew is left pundit talking points...

[Troy Loney]

Trump is a lot like a Rick Pitino coached basketball team. Pitino's teams always played really physical defense, and Pitino's philosophy was basically "the refs cant/wont call a foul on every play, so we will just foul every play and you cant do anything about it".

Likewise, trump breaks rules and norms all the time, so he can say and do blatantly offensive/wrong/illegal things and get away with it.

Yeah, so it's basically shredded any pretense that people cared about anything other than their tribe.

Which I think is a bad thing, there are absolute truths in the general philosophy from both the right and the left. There are markets and arenas where government regulation is overbearing, outdated, and overly burdensome. And there are also aspects of life that should be solely controlled by private and market forces. And from the left, there is excess utility from certain social welfare programs and public arenas that have to be addressed through public policy and public finance.

It's hard to imagine how constructive things are ever addressed in this climate, the only thing this congress and executive can compromise on is kicking the can down the road on any actual substantive decision.

[faftorial]

After 2 years of #MuellerTime led by the Universe's Top Cop came up with nothing,

His collusion with Russia and the obstruction of justice was nothing? No, they couldn't prove criminal conspiracy (because all of the obstruction), but the obstruction found would have put anyone else but Trump in prison for long time.

[Trip McNeely]

So when is it going to leak that the Trump admin pushed Saudi Arabia to hack Bezos phone? Because we all know that’s next.

[Troy Loney]

So when is it going to leak that the Trump admin pushed Saudi Arabia to hack Bezos phone? Because we all know that’s next.

They did that on their own.

[CBear3]

Administering foreign policy in the method Trump has is impeachable, there's no "whatabboutism" for that.

I can't imagine caring about what reason the obstinate right has for denying that reality.

I said how he did it was impeachable. He should have let the RNC contact Ukraine like the DNC did, then all would be ok.

The funny thing about this is Challupa wants to testify

[Troy Loney]

Administering foreign policy in the method Trump has is impeachable, there's no "whatabboutism" for that.

I can't imagine caring about what reason the obstinate right has for denying that reality.

I said how he did it was impeachable. He should have let the RNC contact Ukraine like the DNC did, then all would be ok.

The funny thing about this is Challupa wants to testify

Imagine, after all of this, still thinking the DNC "colluded" with Ukraine.

[NailedPenguin]

After 2 years of #MuellerTime led by the Universe's Top Cop came up with nothing,

His collusion with Russia and the obstruction of justice was nothing? No, they couldn't prove criminal conspiracy (because all of the obstruction), but the obstruction found would have put anyone else but Trump in prison for long time.

Okay cool. The most it accomplished was resisters still have just enough to REEEEEEEE about on social media everyday. Nothing changed. Congratulations I guess.

[MWB]

If the excuse is that trump is doing what everyone else has done, why was trump impeached but others weren’t for this? Obama was as hated by the right. I don’t think “they just really don’t like him so he’s being impeached” makes sense here.

[count2infinity]

I know it's an unnamed POTUS confidant so no anti-anti trumper will believe it, but that's.... something.