Politics And Current Events

[tifosi77]

The Trump administration has decided that Vietnamese migrants who arrived before the establishment of diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Vietnam are subject to standard immigration law—meaning they are all eligible for deportation. https://t.co/njUnvAjm8x

All brown people must go!

If they pursue this, 1) I don't think it will stand up to a court challenge (it has a very ex post facto feel too it, but I haven't read any opinions specific to this policy yet so I can't say with any certainty); and 2) it would be further evidence of the bigoted approach to immigration Cheeto favors - these people have been in this country for three or four decades at this point, many of them upstanding members of their communities, and large numbers of them now naturalized citizens.

This is an abhorrent policy proposal.

From freakin Vox of all places.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/1 ... ssion=true

That puts two different categories of people at risk: noncitizens who lost their legal status (including green cards) because they were convicted of sufficiently serious crimes, and unauthorized immigrants who had been here since 1995 but had never gotten permanent legal status or citizenship.


It does not affect people who currently have legal status in the US, unless they lose it. It does not affect naturalized citizens at all.

Oh good, it's only slightly repugnant. I stand happily corrected.

[NailedPenguin]

The Trump administration has decided that Vietnamese migrants who arrived before the establishment of diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Vietnam are subject to standard immigration law—meaning they are all eligible for deportation. https://t.co/njUnvAjm8x

All brown people must go!

If they pursue this, 1) I don't think it will stand up to a court challenge (it has a very ex post facto feel too it, but I haven't read any opinions specific to this policy yet so I can't say with any certainty); and 2) it would be further evidence of the bigoted approach to immigration Cheeto favors - these people have been in this country for three or four decades at this point, many of them upstanding members of their communities, and large numbers of them now naturalized citizens.

This is an abhorrent policy proposal.

From freakin Vox of all places.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/1 ... ssion=true

That puts two different categories of people at risk: noncitizens who lost their legal status (including green cards) because they were convicted of sufficiently serious crimes, and unauthorized immigrants who had been here since 1995 but had never gotten permanent legal status or citizenship.


It does not affect people who currently have legal status in the US, unless they lose it. It does not affect naturalized citizens at all.

Oh good, it's only slightly repugnant. I stand happily corrected.

Serious criminals and those with non legal status are subject to deportation. The horror.
Just admit you had another Orange Man Bad freakout over nothing and were wrong.

[tifosi77]

The media keeps harping the campaign finance angle, but Cohen also pleaded guilty to three or four other felonies (bank fraud, etc.) that would not require Trump's knowledge of criminality to create exposure. (e.g If you sign and submit an illegal tax return, you're on the hook.) Those crimes potentially expose the Trump Organization and its officers (nearly all of whom are called Trump) to risk.

I think those involve Cohen's taxi medallion stuff.

I believe that's just the tax evasion charge. The banking charges pertain to things like fraudulently obtaining the home equity loan that was used to fund Essential Consultants (and pay Stormy and McDougal). And if those underlying transactions are illegal, reimbursement for them from the Trump Organization may also be illegal.

[tifosi77]

Just admit you had another Orange Man Bad freakout over nothing and were wrong.

Its policies are pushing people who have already put down roots in the US closer to deportation, with no attention to the role the US played in the circumstances that made them come here to begin with.

It’s not about going out and deporting people. It’s about making people deportable.

But while Obama often emphasized that some immigrants shouldn’t feel they were at risk of deportation — even when in practice, they were getting deported — Trump administration officials have consistently made it clear that any fear immigrants have of being arrested and deported is justified.

This is the most consistent pattern of the Trump administration’s deportation agenda. They don’t have the resources to deport everyone. They have instead acted to expand the pool of those who are vulnerable to deportation, and live under its threat.

It is the Vilification of the Other.

[Troy Loney]

Relevant to point out that, it would have has also had to have been proven that Clinton "knowingly" violated the law with the email case.

[Viva la Ben]

In her signed statement of offense, obtained by NBC News ahead of the hearing, Butina admits that she "sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over US politics" at the direction of the Russian government.

https://twitter.com/charliegilenbc/stat ... 23744?s=21

She sought to advance the Russian cause by meeting with political power brokers on many occasions in the DC area - at "friendship dinners", NRA conferences, and the National Prayer breakfast (where she met an unnamed 2016 Presidential candidate).

https://twitter.com/charliegilenbc/stat ... 86720?s=21

[NailedPenguin]

Just admit you had another Orange Man Bad freakout over nothing and were wrong.

Its policies are pushing people who have already put down roots in the US closer to deportation, with no attention to the role the US played in the circumstances that made them come here to begin with.

It’s not about going out and deporting people. It’s about making people deportable.

But while Obama often emphasized that some immigrants shouldn’t feel they were at risk of deportation — even when in practice, they were getting deported — Trump administration officials have consistently made it clear that any fear immigrants have of being arrested and deported is justified.

This is the most consistent pattern of the Trump administration’s deportation agenda. They don’t have the resources to deport everyone. They have instead acted to expand the pool of those who are vulnerable to deportation, and live under its threat.

It is the Vilification of the Other.

Is this like Kim Jong Un's dreaded "legitimacy?"

[eddy]

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/wal ... K4D0nnW96A

[tifosi77]

Is this like Kim Jong Un's dreaded "legitimacy?"

I am unaware of a nuclear weapons program developed by Vietnamese refugees, so no.

[Troy Loney]

In her signed statement of offense, obtained by NBC News ahead of the hearing, Butina admits that she "sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over US politics" at the direction of the Russian government.

https://twitter.com/charliegilenbc/stat ... 23744?s=21

She sought to advance the Russian cause by meeting with political power brokers on many occasions in the DC area - at "friendship dinners", NRA conferences, and the National Prayer breakfast (where she met an unnamed 2016 Presidential candidate).

https://twitter.com/charliegilenbc/stat ... 86720?s=21

Yeah, there's is a video of her asking Trump about Russian sanctions, and Trump saying he we would remove them.

[Viva la Ben]

No contacts with Russia, nothing to do with Russia, no collusion.

[NailedPenguin]

Is this like Kim Jong Un's dreaded "legitimacy?"

I am unaware of a nuclear weapons program developed by Vietnamese refugees, so no.

Just admit you were wrong. Lord knows you get plenty of practice.

[Troy Loney]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... t-mueller/

So basically, this is where we are.

Yet two Flynn associates tell Mother Jones that Flynn has informed friends and colleagues that prior to Election Day he spoke with Kislyak about how Trump could work productively with Russia if he won the presidency.

One of these Flynn associates, who each asked not to be identified, notes that Flynn said he discussed with Kislyak a grand bargain in which Moscow would cooperate with the Trump administration to resolve the Syrian conflict and Washington would end or ease up on the sanctions imposed on Russia for its annexation of Crimea and military intervention in Ukraine. The other Flynn associate says Flynn said he had been talking to Kislyak about Syria, Iran, and other foreign policy matters that Russia and the United States could tackle together were Trump to be elected. A third Flynn associate recalls that shortly after the election, Flynn told him he had been in contact with Kislyak about Syria—but without stating whether that was before or after Election Day.

Had Flynn privately met or communicated with Kislyak during the summer or fall, it would mean Trump’s chief national security aide was secretly interacting with the representative of a foreign power as that government was mounting information and cyber warfare against the United States. Such an interaction could signal to the Vladimir Putin regime that Trump didn’t mind the Kremlin’s interference in the election and would be willing to work with Moscow despite its efforts to subvert the US election. And if Flynn held such conversations with the Russian ambassador, this could have bolstered the Kremlin’s preference for Trump over Hillary Clinton and provided Moscow with further incentive for intervening in the 2016 campaign to assist Trump—especially if there was any talk of a sanctions-for-Syria deal or other policy aims desired by Putin. (Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions, a top Republican supporting Trump, met with Kislyak at least twice in 2016, including in September in his Senate office.)

[tifosi77]

She sought to advance the Russian cause by meeting with political power brokers on many occasions in the DC area - at "friendship dinners", NRA conferences, and the National Prayer breakfast (where she met an unnamed 2016 Presidential candidate).

https://twitter.com/charliegilenbc/stat ... 86720?s=21

I can't find any rundown of the attendees of the 2016 event. The closest I've gotten was a few stories citing "several members of Congress".

[tifosi77]

Just admit you were wrong. Lord knows you get plenty of practice.

[Morkle]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... t-mueller/

So basically, this is where we are.

Yet two Flynn associates tell Mother Jones that Flynn has informed friends and colleagues that prior to Election Day he spoke with Kislyak about how Trump could work productively with Russia if he won the presidency.

One of these Flynn associates, who each asked not to be identified, notes that Flynn said he discussed with Kislyak a grand bargain in which Moscow would cooperate with the Trump administration to resolve the Syrian conflict and Washington would end or ease up on the sanctions imposed on Russia for its annexation of Crimea and military intervention in Ukraine. The other Flynn associate says Flynn said he had been talking to Kislyak about Syria, Iran, and other foreign policy matters that Russia and the United States could tackle together were Trump to be elected. A third Flynn associate recalls that shortly after the election, Flynn told him he had been in contact with Kislyak about Syria—but without stating whether that was before or after Election Day.

Had Flynn privately met or communicated with Kislyak during the summer or fall, it would mean Trump’s chief national security aide was secretly interacting with the representative of a foreign power as that government was mounting information and cyber warfare against the United States. Such an interaction could signal to the Vladimir Putin regime that Trump didn’t mind the Kremlin’s interference in the election and would be willing to work with Moscow despite its efforts to subvert the US election. And if Flynn held such conversations with the Russian ambassador, this could have bolstered the Kremlin’s preference for Trump over Hillary Clinton and provided Moscow with further incentive for intervening in the 2016 campaign to assist Trump—especially if there was any talk of a sanctions-for-Syria deal or other policy aims desired by Putin. (Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions, a top Republican supporting Trump, met with Kislyak at least twice in 2016, including in September in his Senate office.)

Seems like a major tidbit, yes?

[Troy Loney]

Seems like a major tidbit, yes?

I think it helps arrive at what was actually going on.

There is not likely going to be some John Le Carre double agent explanation for what happened in all of this. Putin is not Trump's "handler" and there isn't going to be explicit evidence of coordination between Trump and Russia that is provable in a court of law. It's more that the Trump campaign was "aiding and abetting" the Russian influence campaign. David Corn was on the Slate podcast yesterday and I think provided a good analagy, it would be like if Trump was aware that the bank he was standing in front of was getting robbed, he wasn't doing the robbing, but he's out front yelling that there is no robbery. This is Trump, despite being warned by the IC of Russian activity, amplifying wikileaks and telling everyone that Putin is good and that they are not interfering.

So Trump is blaring the green light to Putin to put his finger on the scale while his associates like Flynn are making these global chess moves.

(in my opinion)

[Troy Loney]

Claire McCaskill on how Republicans describe Trump in private: "Nuts. Weak. Doesn't really understand government. Doesn't care to understand anything complicated ... says the most unbelievable things in meetings that clearly shows he doesn't understand the subject."

Checks out. (in my opinion)

[Willie Kool]

Putin is not Trump's "handler"

Are you really sure?

it would be like if Trump was aware that the bank he was standing in front of was getting robbed, he wasn't doing the robbing, but he's out front yelling that there is no robbery.

And the thieves are depositing some of the loot in Trump's account. He is personally benefiting from it...

[eddy]

Seems like a major tidbit, yes?

I think it helps arrive at what was actually going on.

There is not likely going to be some John Le Carre double agent explanation for what happened in all of this. Putin is not Trump's "handler" and there isn't going to be explicit evidence of coordination between Trump and Russia that is provable in a court of law. It's more that the Trump campaign was "aiding and abetting" the Russian influence campaign. David Corn was on the Slate podcast yesterday and I think provided a good analagy, it would be like if Trump was aware that the bank he was standing in front of was getting robbed, he wasn't doing the robbing, but he's out front yelling that there is no robbery. This is Trump, despite being warned by the IC of Russian activity, amplifying wikileaks and telling everyone that Putin is good and that they are not interfering.

So Trump is blaring the green light to Putin to put his finger on the scale while his associates like Flynn are making these global chess moves.

(in my opinion)

say this is accurate, why are so many people giving him a pass? Is it simply because a republican is president? do they have ties?

[count2infinity]

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/12/67620925 ... ettlements

@grunty

[Factorial]

say this is accurate, why are so many people giving him a pass? Is it simply because a republican is president? do they have ties?

@NailedPenguin

[eddy]

[Troy Loney]

say this is accurate, why are so many people giving him a pass? Is it simply because a republican is president? do they have ties?

I think for a number of concurrent elements:

The onion is still getting pealed back on all the dealings, so it's still early.

I don't think the arrangement is drastically different from how the US conducted covert intelligence operations across the globe. I think this is best exemplified in the current US/Saudi relationship. Trump just says all the quiet parts loud. We are supposed to publicly decry their human rights violations, while we privately ignore them to maintain the support in the region.

The President is empowered to reset international relations in the way that Trump has, it certainly seems that Trump is reshaping those alliances based on personal financial interest, but that hasn't been proven. I think that congressional investigations are going to turn this around on Trump a lot. His whole life rotates around doing things that are "wrong, not illegal", that prevents legal exposure, but congressional investigations and revelations aren't confined to legal/illegal questions, and could work to expose unethical acts that can be considered impeachable. So a congress that was uninterested in finding out how corrupt the POTUS is matters.

Also, I don't think many republicans care that Russia interfered in the election. They're like, "call me when Trump broke the law".

[shafnutz05]

This is an absolutely horrible story. A nine-year-old black girl committed suicide because of racist bullying. My heart weeps for her and her family. Because she had the nerve to have a friendship with a white boy and actually be colorblind, other black NINE YEAR OLDS literally drove her to suicide.

I know the parenting situation in that community is not exactly known for high marks, but this story both saddens and enrages me. I can only imagine the kind of garbage that these other children hear at home from their own trash parents. Just profoundly awful.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... it-suicide

McKenzie Nicole Adams’s aunt, Eddwina Harris, told the local newspaper that the fourth grade student had been bullied by other students at the U.S. Jones Elementary School in Demopolis, Ala., for “the entire school year.”

“She was being bullied the entire school year, with words such as ‘kill yourself,’ ‘you think you’re white because you ride with that white boy,’ ‘you ugly,’ ‘black b----,’ ‘just die,' ” Harris said.

Jasmine Adams said her daughter’s body was later discovered by the child's grandmother after she hanged herself last week in their home in Linden, Ala.

Adams told the local CBS station that the bullying began again shortly after her daughter transferred to the school. She had reportedly also been bullied at her previous school.

"She told me that this one particular child was writing her nasty notes in class. It was just things you wouldn't think a 9-year-old should know,” Adams said. “And my baby, to tell me some of the things they had said to her, I was like, ‘Where are they learning this from?’ ”