Politics And Current Events

[Troy Loney]

No one is really arguing whether or not Trump "benefited" from the Russian meddling in the broadest sense, but Rosenstein said in his press conference that:

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity,” Rosenstein said. “There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.”

I'm not sure how that relates to the question. I'm saying on a scale of potential Trump campaign involvement with the Russian cyber attack, what level of behavior from the campaign should incite impeachment hearings?

You guys are using this indictment for implications against trump. Rosenstein is saying the opposite.

I'm saying it has established the baseline that the Trump campaign benefited from illegal Russian election interference. The Trump Tower meeting has also established that the Trump campaign was above that baseline and somewhere on that spectrum of conspiracy and passive recipient. It's an open question for what level of involvement constitutes impeachment.

[Viva la Ben]

Somehow I don’t think the carter page fisa warrant that was so fruitful it was renewed 3-4 times had anything to do with today’s indictment.

[grunthy]

Trump has railed that the investigation was a hoax that there was nothing there. It most certainly isn’t a hoax and the investigation is ongoing.

I thought he has mostly if not just said collusion was a hoax, not the whole investigation.

[Troy Loney]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ith-russia

Trump indicated that he believes the indictment exonerates him and his campaign.

That has yet to be determined. Friday’s indictment should be seen as an effort by Mueller to raise awareness about Russia’s capabilities as the 2018 U.S. elections draw near, the person said.

It’s still possible that Mueller will indict Americans for knowingly helping Russia, the person said.

[grunthy]

No one is really arguing whether or not Trump "benefited" from the Russian meddling in the broadest sense, but Rosenstein said in his press conference that:

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity,” Rosenstein said. “There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.”

I'm not sure how that relates to the question. I'm saying on a scale of potential Trump campaign involvement with the Russian cyber attack, what level of behavior from the campaign should incite impeachment hearings?

You guys are using this indictment for implications against trump. Rosenstein is saying the opposite.

I'm saying it has established the baseline that the Trump campaign benefited from illegal Russian election interference. The Trump Tower meeting has also established that the Trump campaign was above that baseline and somewhere on that spectrum of conspiracy and passive recipient. It's an open question for what level of involvement constitutes impeachment.

Hillary’s campaign tried to get information compiled by a foreign national. I don’t see the media calling for her head. “Derrr she isn’t president” - the board, she did it to try to be president so it has relevance.

Edited for predictive text.

[Troy Loney]

Are you talking about the Steele Dossier or the Ukraine thing?

[grunthy]

Are you talking about the Steele Dossier or the Ukraine thing?

Both, since you brought them both up.

[Troy Loney]

Either way, you have to ignore basically all context to equate the Trump Tower meeting with either.

[grunthy]

Either way, you have to ignore basically all context to equate the Trump Tower meeting with either.

All come down to the campaigns trying to get dirt on the other from foreign entities.

[tifosi77]

Not trying to be pedantic, it's an important distinction, imo. In CA, for example, around 2/3 of gun crimes are committed with either 9mm, .40S&W, .45 ACP, .380 Auto, or .32 auto handguns.

Is .32 ACP really that high on the list? While not rare, it's not exactly a common cartridge these days either.

It's only like 3%. Just pointing out that the most common firearms used in crimes are semi-automatic (pistols).

[tifosi77]

I'm not sure how that relates to the question. I'm saying on a scale of potential Trump campaign involvement with the Russian cyber attack, what level of behavior from the campaign should incite impeachment hearings?

There need not be any underlying criminal conduct to initiate impeachment; one of the supporting points for the approved Nixon impeachment articles was [m]aking or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States," which is not a crime.

[Viva la Ben]

Trump claiming exoneration over today’s indictment is like the Empire declaring mission accomplished after the battle of hoth.

[tifosi77]

Trump has railed that the investigation was a hoax that there was nothing there. It most certainly isn’t a hoax and the investigation is ongoing.

I thought he has mostly if not just said collusion was a hoax, not the whole investigation.

He said the whole "Trump-Russia thing" was a ruse, so that implies he thinks the entire investigation is bogus.

[tifosi77]

All come down to the campaigns trying to get dirt on the other from foreign entities.

Not that it necessarily matters for the purposes of determining if it would've been a violation of campaign laws, there are two related data points that I'm not sure have ever been revealed publicly (or if they have been, I missed it somewhere):

1) Did Christopher Steele know who the end consumer of the intel was? He was a contractor delivering work product to a client; did he know who was paying the bills, at any point in his engagement?

2) Similarly, did HRC campaign/DNC know who was compiling the intel?

Both of those points would seem to be things all parties would want to keep siloed off from each other.

[grunthy]

Trump has railed that the investigation was a hoax that there was nothing there. It most certainly isn’t a hoax and the investigation is ongoing.

I thought he has mostly if not just said collusion was a hoax, not the whole investigation.

He said the whole "Trump-Russia thing" was a ruse, so that implies he thinks the entire investigation is bogus.

Or just the Trump Russia collusion part.

[shmenguin]

I'm still pretty confident trump wins without Russian assistance. this doesn't make anything ok, but it's what I think.

[Shyster]

It's only like 3%. Just pointing out that the most common firearms used in crimes are semi-automatic (pistols).

Interesting. That data does lump .32 ACP together with .32 S&W, which is a revolver cartridge, so it would cover both pistols and revolvers. Those would have to be some pretty old revolvers. I don't think anyone has made new revolvers in .32 S&W in many years.

[dodint]

Trump claiming exoneration over today’s indictment is like the Empire declaring mission accomplished after the battle of hoth.

I don't know what this means, sounds like:

[columbia]

Can’t know what’s ahead, but the “I told you it was nothing” spin is amusing. We shall see.

[Willie Kool]

Not trying to be pedantic, it's an important distinction, imo. In CA, for example, around 2/3 of gun crimes are committed with either 9mm, .40S&W, .45 ACP, .380 Auto, or .32 auto handguns.

Is .32 ACP really that high on the list? While not rare, it's not exactly a common cartridge these days either.

lol weird. I just saw one for the first time a couple weeks ago...

[Factorial]

Did they indict that 400lb hacker from New Jersey too?

[columbia]

I think he got a job here.

[columbia]

One would think that the POTUS would be genuinely concerned about today’s indictments. That lack of concern is certainly telling.

[columbia]

Ireland votes in favour of law to become world's first country to fully divest from fossil fuels

Bill seeks to drop coal, oil and gas investments from Ireland Strategic Investment Fund
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 49121.html

[MWB]

These kids need actual, substantial punishment. Not bullshit "oh they're just kids, they were just joking, my little Ethan didn't really mean it" punishment. Send em to juvie.

A guy called into Smerconish yesterday with a personal story. His brother was shot and killed in 8th grade by a classmate who brought his dad's pistol into school. He loaded it. Raised his arm parallel to the ground. Pulled the trigger. Shot the guy's brother in the head. When he fell, the kid kicked the brother in the head. He was allowed to come back to school the next day, and was wearing the same shoes that still had the brother's blood on them.

The trial was in front of a judge (the kid was a minor, no jury), who dismissed the case because "there's no way to reasonably conclude the defendant could have been aware his actions might result in death".

Did I mention the shooter was the son of the police chief, and the pistol was his dad's service weapon?

I find this incredibly hard to believe.