Politics And Current Events

Tomas
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Postby Tomas » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:23 pm

https://forward.com/news/356753/neo-naz ... ainstream/
Last month, the country’s leading neo-Nazi group did away with their swastika logo. Emboldened by Donald Trump’s victory in the election, they saw this as a moment where their movement could go mainstream.

The National Socialist Movement, which has its roots in the original American Nazi Party, has replaced it’s swastika insignia for an a pre-Roman symbol known as the Othala Rune also embraced by the Nazis.
From 2016.
And this is apparently from the 2017 Charlottesville march:



I personally think that whoever designed the stage went for the "Easter egg" visible for all people who like this symbol...

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:29 pm


faftorial
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Postby faftorial » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:37 pm

Winking at white nationalists has been an established part of public persona since this all started. If that’s the agreed upon foundation, then the stage design conspiracy is plausible. Because of years of data.

If that’s not the agreed upon foundation, there’s no point in bothering.
:thumb:

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:56 pm

The link between runic writing and white supremacists in Europe and North America is not at all this weirdly obscure thing. I mean, it's probably foreign to non-white supremacists, sure. Which is kind of the point. CPAC did not in any believable fashion 'accidentally' do this; the people involved in giving the final green light to the stage design may not have had any understanding of what they were signing off on, but the person responsible for the actual pen-to-paper design of the thing, maybe even a few lower-level people in the approval process......... yeah, it is very very very hard to believe that they didn't know what they were doing here.
And who says that the people who did this have any connection to white supremacists? You and others here are engaging in circular logic, in which you are using your proposition as proof. You admit that people who aren't white supremacists likely have never heard of this rune. I sure haven't, and not only have I read a lot of WWII history, but I grew up on an era where not only did the History Channel actually do history, but they played so many WWII documentaries that people called it the "Hitler Channel." I don't recall seeing this rune once. But you assert that the people who designed this must have done so intentionally, which means you are assuming they have an intricate familiarity with obscure (and this rule is obscure) Nazi iconography. Of course this stage design is proof that the CPAC organizers are Nazis. Why? Because only Nazis would know about this rune. But that's assuming they did know about the rune. Who says? Who are those people? Where is the proof that they know anything about uncommon WWII Nazi symbols?
Do you think it’s odd to apply “beyond a reasonable doubt” logic to this debate? I’m guessing not, it may seem natural to you, but it’s making you seem like a crazy person.

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:33 pm

lol

https://wildhunt.org/2021/02/army-speci ... agery.html

Army special operations center cautions soldiers about extremist imagery
Janice Burton, a spokesperson for SWCS, told American Military News that the list extremist of symbols comes from a New York Police Department’s Intelligence Bureau which it has identified as extremist imagery.

The symbols include:

QAnon symbols
The III symbol
Proud Boys symbols
Oath Keepers symbols
Symbols of National Social Club 131
The “Kek” flag
Boogaloo symbols
The Swastika
A Swastika and dagger symbol
14
88
The Nordic “Sunwheel”
“SS” lightning bolts
The Wheel Cross, also known as an Odin’s Cross or Celtic Cross
“WP” symbols, including as a hand sign
The Archangel Michael Cross
The Othala Rune
The Norse Algiz Rune
The “Totenkopf” or “Death’s Head” skull and crossbones
The Universal Order, skastika and scales symbol
The nuclear symbol
Triple parenthesis ((( )))
Pepe the frog
it's too coincidental to be a coincidence

Shyster
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Postby Shyster » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:55 am

Do you think it’s odd to apply “beyond a reasonable doubt” logic to this debate? I’m guessing not, it may seem natural to you, but it’s making you seem like a crazy person.
There is no proof whatsoever that whoever picked that stage design intended any connection to Nazi imagery. No proof. None. We don't even know who designed the stage in the first place.

I'm not asking for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I've yet to see any proof. And no, "they must have intended a Nazi reference because they're conservatives and conservatives are Nazis" isn't proof.

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:33 am

Shyster, I’m curious what your endgame is. Or, well, I guess what everyone’s endgame is in this discussion

Here is what I believe:
* most people associated with CPAC did not know that that symbol was a thing or, if they were aware of the symbol, didn’t recognize it as it’s a stage and rather large
* someone - maybe multiple people - designed that stage intentionally and it went through the many layers approval with the approvers falling in the “don’t know what it is” category

I’m not saying CPAC is a nazi org or that republicans are nazis. Obviously that’s ridiculous. But I do think someone in that organization designed that stage with intent. And it’s an awful, awful look for them after large swaths of their party were compared to Nazis for the last 4 years

Of course I don’t have proof; but we’re dealing in the court of public opinion where you can convict with much less.

It would be like if a democrat convention had a stage designed to look like a hammer and sickle or something. The democrats are not communists but there are people in the organization who are but there doesn’t excuse the org as a whole

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Postby genoscoif » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:02 am

The link between runic writing and white supremacists in Europe and North America is not at all this weirdly obscure thing. I mean, it's probably foreign to non-white supremacists, sure. Which is kind of the point. CPAC did not in any believable fashion 'accidentally' do this; the people involved in giving the final green light to the stage design may not have had any understanding of what they were signing off on, but the person responsible for the actual pen-to-paper design of the thing, maybe even a few lower-level people in the approval process......... yeah, it is very very very hard to believe that they didn't know what they were doing here.
And who says that the people who did this have any connection to white supremacists? You and others here are engaging in circular logic, in which you are using your proposition as proof. You admit that people who aren't white supremacists likely have never heard of this rune. I sure haven't, and not only have I read a lot of WWII history, but I grew up on an era where not only did the History Channel actually do history, but they played so many WWII documentaries that people called it the "Hitler Channel." I don't recall seeing this rune once. But you assert that the people who designed this must have done so intentionally, which means you are assuming they have an intricate familiarity with obscure (and this rule is obscure) Nazi iconography. Of course this stage design is proof that the CPAC organizers are Nazis. Why? Because only Nazis would know about this rune. But that's assuming they did know about the rune. Who says? Who are those people? Where is the proof that they know anything about uncommon WWII Nazi symbols?
Do you think it’s odd to apply “beyond a reasonable doubt” logic to this debate? I’m guessing not, it may seem natural to you, but it’s making you seem like a crazy person.
Wait, you guys aren't trolling??? You actually believe that this was some deliberate low-key shout out by the organizers of CPAC to white supremacist organizations? You actually believe they sat in a room and thought to themselves 'We have to get a message to all our nazi friends that we heart them, but how? I know, we'll design the stage to look like some obscure nazi symbol! Brilliant! Dumb lefties will be totally pwned.' Like, you actually believe that...for real?

Yikes. I mean, you do you, my dudes...but maybe lay off the Dan Brown books for a bit.

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Postby Shyster » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:16 am

Of course I don’t have proof; but we’re dealing in the court of public opinion where you can convict with much less.

But we don't even know who designed the stage. I doubt it was in-house. They probably hired a production company. Let's say the head designer of the production company that the American Conservative Union hired to do the stage is actually a huge socialist Bernie Bro who hates Republicans and is pissed that his company is doing CPAC. So he looks up an obscure Nazi symbol and makes the stage that shape. None of the CPAC organizers have ever heard of the rune, and the design slips through. Score! And now everyone is talking about it.

Do I have any proof that the CPAC stage was designed by a malicious liberal? Nope. But since none of the rest of you have any proof about who designed it and why, the story I just pulled out of my ass is just as plausible as anything else.

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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:47 am

The link between runic writing and white supremacists in Europe and North America is not at all this weirdly obscure thing. I mean, it's probably foreign to non-white supremacists, sure. Which is kind of the point. CPAC did not in any believable fashion 'accidentally' do this; the people involved in giving the final green light to the stage design may not have had any understanding of what they were signing off on, but the person responsible for the actual pen-to-paper design of the thing, maybe even a few lower-level people in the approval process......... yeah, it is very very very hard to believe that they didn't know what they were doing here.
And who says that the people who did this have any connection to white supremacists? You and others here are engaging in circular logic, in which you are using your proposition as proof. You admit that people who aren't white supremacists likely have never heard of this rune. I sure haven't, and not only have I read a lot of WWII history, but I grew up on an era where not only did the History Channel actually do history, but they played so many WWII documentaries that people called it the "Hitler Channel." I don't recall seeing this rune once. But you assert that the people who designed this must have done so intentionally, which means you are assuming they have an intricate familiarity with obscure (and this rule is obscure) Nazi iconography. Of course this stage design is proof that the CPAC organizers are Nazis. Why? Because only Nazis would know about this rune. But that's assuming they did know about the rune. Who says? Who are those people? Where is the proof that they know anything about uncommon WWII Nazi symbols?
Do you think it’s odd to apply “beyond a reasonable doubt” logic to this debate? I’m guessing not, it may seem natural to you, but it’s making you seem like a crazy person.
Wait, you guys aren't trolling??? You actually believe that this was some deliberate low-key shout out by the organizers of CPAC to white supremacist organizations? You actually believe they sat in a room and thought to themselves 'We have to get a message to all our nazi friends that we heart them, but how? I know, we'll design the stage to look like some obscure nazi symbol! Brilliant! Dumb lefties will be totally pwned.' Like, you actually believe that...for real?

Yikes. I mean, you do you, my dudes...but maybe lay off the Dan Brown books for a bit.
I don’t understand why this argument is hard to follow.

Someone was a big fan of this old Nordic symbol about heritage. normally, when making a decision like the stage design, you would do background, and considering the nazi associations with the symbol is apparent after 5 seconds of research, the notion that anyone responsible for the design is unaware that it’s a nazi thing, is ridiculous. So either, you are good with the association to the nazis, or you don’t care. And to us, this last sentence is bad, nazi stuff is bad and making your stage a nazi thing makes you look bad. But, back to my earlier thought, for you and shyster, apparently, absent murdering Jews and communists, you aren’t an actual nazi, so it’s all hysterics

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Postby NTP66 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:36 am

Source of the post I doubt it was in-house.
That's because it was Antifa, dummy.

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:15 am

This got weird. It's been plastered all over twitter for two days, did any of them say it was unintentional yet?

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Postby Pavel Bure » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:21 am

I don’t think this is a purposeful/accidental discussion. There are for sure examples out there of lower level people sneaking things past their bosses (usually it’s just inside jokes) there are also examples of accidents creating situations like this.

I believe the argument is for better QA:oversight in the creation process. It might seem like overkill to present a list of imagery to be aware of but for a party that seems to routinely be accused of either being or sympathizing with Nazis and facists it should be standard practice. If they actually want to distance themselves from those comparisons that is.

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Postby NTP66 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:32 am

Aaaand she's back. :lol:


Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:36 am

I don’t think this is a purposeful/accidental discussion. There are for sure examples out there of lower level people sneaking things past their bosses (usually it’s just inside jokes) there are also examples of accidents creating situations like this.

I believe the argument is for better QA:oversight in the creation process. It might seem like overkill to present a list of imagery to be aware of but for a party that seems to routinely be accused of either being or sympathizing with Nazis and facists it should be standard practice. If they actually want to distance themselves from those comparisons that is.
It reminds me of the okay sign debate thing. Everyone understands that making the okay sign does not make you a white nationalist. But making the sign to make people think you are a white nationalist as joke, how is that make you look like the one on top in this situation?

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Postby shmenguin » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:56 am

Back to this...if it was accidental, so what. Deep apologies to the event planners who spent the weekend justifying why a coup attempt took place in January?

So very sorry, esteemed bigots and seditionists.

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Postby shmenguin » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 am

Sure, there’s the concentration camps where we tear Mexican babies from their mothers, and the Charlottesville rally where we emboldened neo nazis to kill a protester, and we inspired racist massacres in El Paso and New Zealand. But don’t you dare make these insinuations that we designed our stage to match our ideology. Too far!

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Postby Viva la Ben » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:05 am

It was a joke.

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Postby count2infinity » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:16 am

Yeah... my guess is if it was actually intentional, it was only a couple of people behind it doing it for the hyuck hyucks. The bigger bet is on it being unintentional, but now that people are talking about it, they (for whatever reason) can't come out and say it was unintentional because that would show weakness. Bending to cancel culture n'at.

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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:16 am

Sure, there’s the concentration camps where we tear Mexican babies from their mothers, and the Charlottesville rally where we emboldened neo nazis to kill a protester, and we inspired racist massacres in El Paso, Pittsburgh and New Zealand. But don’t you dare make these insinuations that we designed our stage to match our ideology. Too far!
lest we forget that one, because it's such a massive leap from accusing George Soros of funding migrant caravans to the local synagogue.

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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:21 am

Yeah... my guess is if it was actually intentional, it was only a couple of people behind it doing it for the hyuck hyucks. The bigger bet is on it being unintentional, but now that people are talking about it, they (for whatever reason) can't come out and say it was unintentional because that would show weakness. Bending to cancel culture n'at.
What was unintentional?

The symbol was obviously intentional. and again, the nazi association is described on the wiki page. So it's not plausible to state that they were unawares of the symbol.

I just arrive back at the sentiment I expressed in my initial post on the topic. "we aren't nazis, there's no extermination camps".

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Postby count2infinity » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:25 am

You have 3 screens... 2 on the side, 1 in the middle. Between the screens there are entrances to a podium in the center. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that it's coincidental. In fact, I think it's more likely.

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Postby shmenguin » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:26 am

Just wondering if this is Shyster slowly realizing he voted for a white supremacist fascist in November, not wanting to quite admit it to himself. Like a single issue gun voter assuming all the clowns in Washington are the same - only now realizing that you have to sign up for a bunch of other stuff too when you get in bed with that group.

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Postby Troy Loney » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:40 am

You have 3 screens... 2 on the side, 1 in the middle. Between the screens there are entrances to a podium in the center. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that it's coincidental. In fact, I think it's more likely.
You think the stage design is coincidental? Are you high?

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Postby crusherstasiak » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:42 am

Back to this...if it was accidental, so what. Deep apologies to the event planners who spent the weekend justifying why a coup attempt took place in January?

So very sorry, esteemed bigots and seditionists Nazis.

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