Politics And Current Events

[Trip McNeely]

“I’m going to now direct this at Vice President Biden,” she said when she got the floor. “I do not believe you are a racist, and I agree with you when you commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground.”

“I was actually very — it was hurtful to hear you talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country,” Harris said. “And it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing” — that is, federal efforts to integrate schools by busing Black students into largely White districts.

“You know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bused to school every day,” Harris continued. “And that little girl was me.”

[MWB]

Maybe it's just the vocal minority that like to hear themselves talk, but why do we (all sides have them) hold people to a standard of you can't change your mind? Once you pick a stance, that's it! It's a weird narrative thrown upon people. I flip flop all the time as things/time change and I understand more. It's always a parade of what this person said in a 2 minute window 10 years ago and we trip over ourselves to call them out on it.

Even if what he said 2 years ago is correct, doesn't make what he says now less correct. Also, doesn't mean that the stance on criminal justice can't change. Too many people who can't/won't think for themselves so we shoehorn one direction. Maybe that's the issue. They know this and shout, "see, they changed their mind! And people sit around and say, you know this person is right. Topic or circumstance be damned.

Well said. We do it all the time, taking a snapshot of ones position at one point, then another later on, and judge without context. Twitter is perfect for this. There are undoubtedly people who flip positions for no other reason than to look better, but there’s usually a lot more to it than that.

Does Kamala Harris still think Biden is a racist sexual predator or is that just "debate stuff"?

In other words do those epithets still mean anything?

I tried finding the context of the “I believe them” statement last night. A couple articles said it was that she believed the accusers felt uncomfortable. Others didn’t expand on context. There is a difference.

Either way, she was playing politics, which I hold against her.

[eddy]

I also think it’s interesting how these epithets are an issue for the Democrats but Trump has said things about Ted Cruz and half of the Republican Party and it’s unsurprisingly no big deal

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Politicians playing politics. News at 11

[count2infinity]

I also think it’s interesting how these epithets are an issue for the Democrats but Trump has said things about Ted Cruz and half of the Republican Party and it’s unsurprisingly no big deal

[Troy Loney]

This is why it’s hard for me to understand people saying Harris is the tipping point for keeping Trump in office

Besides dodint, who is saying that?

nobody said he’d have to think about voting Biden now and Mikey seemed to be questioning it maybe (although don’t know if he votes)? That said, I don’t think it’s a big group.

If you are not voting for Biden "because Harris", you were never voting for Biden.

I am not sure which posts you are referring to for sure, but I think you meant Dodint's post about her prosecutor background going against the current cultural tides, which is definitely a legit critique, especially because Biden's criminal justice background is gross.

That said, I think think you have to look at persuadable voters, I would argue that Ulf and Blackjack fit that profile more than the folks you are citing. And by persuadable voter, I just mean people that have weaker political convictions. This board is not a strong representation for the US as whole, probably almost 95% white/college educated/male, which is normally GOP bread and butter (except the board trends 20's and 30's). Considering how strongly women and minorities are going to go democrat this election, pulling those persuadable voters from this bloc seems relevant to me.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Maybe it's just the vocal minority that like to hear themselves talk, but why do we (all sides have them) hold people to a standard of you can't change your mind? Once you pick a stance, that's it! It's a weird narrative thrown upon people. I flip flop all the time as things/time change and I understand more. It's always a parade of what this person said in a 2 minute window 10 years ago and we trip over ourselves to call them out on it.

Even if what he said 2 years ago is correct, doesn't make what he says now less correct. Also, doesn't mean that the stance on criminal justice can't change. Too many people who can't/won't think for themselves so we shoehorn one direction. Maybe that's the issue. They know this and shout, "see, they changed their mind! And people sit around and say, you know this person is right. Topic or circumstance be damned.

Well said. We do it all the time, taking a snapshot of ones position at one point, then another later on, and judge without context. Twitter is perfect for this. There are undoubtedly people who flip positions for no other reason than to look better, but there’s usually a lot more to it than that.

Does Kamala Harris still think Biden is a racist sexual predator or is that just "debate stuff"?

In other words do those epithets still mean anything?

It’s like you had a prepared dossier of every possible VP pick to rattle off negatives like you’re Kellyanne Conway

When did Kamala call Biden a racist? Cause I’m pretty sure it didn’t happen

I also think it’s interesting how these epithets are an issue for the Democrats but Trump has said things about Ted Cruz and half of the Republican Party and it’s unsurprisingly no big deal

Here we go with the lazy "whatabout Trump lololololol" and "anything you say must be e-mails from the Trump white house". Thanks for getting that predictable response out of the way.

No one likes Trump, no one defends Trump here. I'm not voting for him, and didn't in 2016. Can we have a conversation without "OMG TRUMP"?

[count2infinity]

Source of the post no one defends Trump here

[willeyeam]

Lol

[shoeshine boy]

If you are not voting for Biden "because Harris", you were never voting for Biden.

exactly. I took a minute to listen to Erick Erickson yesterday right after the announcement. he said that he had been thinking about voting for Biden but now couldn't if Harris was going to be "one heartbeat away from the Oval Office" and all I could think was, "as opposed to who's currently IN the Oval Office????"

[eddy]

Kinda weird seeing blanket statements made in here and then those who take them personally by saying they aren't that person.

[Troy Loney]

Here we go with the lazy "whatabout Trump lololololol" and "anything you say must be e-mails from the Trump white house". Thanks for getting that predictable response out of the way.

No one likes Trump, no one defends Trump here. I'm not voting for him, and didn't in 2016. Can we have a conversation without "OMG TRUMP"?

What are we here for though?

I don't think it's especially revelatory that you can assume the vast majority of our political persuasions are arranged as opposition, rather than support for a political party. And this isn't just "lesser of two evils", the two political parties are entrenched and are not going to relieve their vice grip on power, so it's not like arguing against one party is to be ignorant of that reality. The lack of ideological diversity within the bastion of GOP power, to the point where they can all swear allegiance to a toad like Grover Norquist exhibits a fundamental divide between the two parties in their approach to government.

I think the lazy argument is to couch your arguments in antagonism to both parties and just dismiss any opinion through that lens.

[Trip McNeely]

Maybe it's just the vocal minority that like to hear themselves talk, but why do we (all sides have them) hold people to a standard of you can't change your mind? Once you pick a stance, that's it! It's a weird narrative thrown upon people. I flip flop all the time as things/time change and I understand more. It's always a parade of what this person said in a 2 minute window 10 years ago and we trip over ourselves to call them out on it.

Even if what he said 2 years ago is correct, doesn't make what he says now less correct. Also, doesn't mean that the stance on criminal justice can't change. Too many people who can't/won't think for themselves so we shoehorn one direction. Maybe that's the issue. They know this and shout, "see, they changed their mind! And people sit around and say, you know this person is right. Topic or circumstance be damned.

Well said. We do it all the time, taking a snapshot of ones position at one point, then another later on, and judge without context. Twitter is perfect for this. There are undoubtedly people who flip positions for no other reason than to look better, but there’s usually a lot more to it than that.

Does Kamala Harris still think Biden is a racist sexual predator or is that just "debate stuff"?

In other words do those epithets still mean anything?

It’s like you had a prepared dossier of every possible VP pick to rattle off negatives like you’re Kellyanne Conway

When did Kamala call Biden a racist? Cause I’m pretty sure it didn’t happen

I also think it’s interesting how these epithets are an issue for the Democrats but Trump has said things about Ted Cruz and half of the Republican Party and it’s unsurprisingly no big deal

Here we go with the lazy "whatabout Trump lololololol" and "anything you say must be e-mails from the Trump white house". Thanks for getting that predictable response out of the way.

No one likes Trump, no one defends Trump here. I'm not voting for him, and didn't in 2016. Can we have a conversation without "OMG TRUMP"?

It’s hard to take you or this statement seriously.

[MWB]

This is why it’s hard for me to understand people saying Harris is the tipping point for keeping Trump in office

Besides dodint, who is saying that?

nobody said he’d have to think about voting Biden now and Mikey seemed to be questioning it maybe (although don’t know if he votes)? That said, I don’t think it’s a big group.

If you are not voting for Biden "because Harris", you were never voting for Biden.

I am not sure which posts you are referring to for sure, but I think you meant Dodint's post about her prosecutor background going against the current cultural tides, which is definitely a legit critique, especially because Biden's criminal justice background is gross.

That said, I think think you have to look at persuadable voters, I would argue that Ulf and Blackjack fit that profile more than the folks you are citing. And by persuadable voter, I just mean people that have weaker political convictions. This board is not a strong representation for the US as whole, probably almost 95% white/college educated/male, which is normally GOP bread and butter (except the board trends 20's and 30's). Considering how strongly women and minorities are going to go democrat this election, pulling those persuadable voters from this bloc seems relevant to me.

He said, “besides dodint,” so I was referencing the other two. I agree with the rest of what you say. I was just talking about the few itt, but don’t think it’s a real problem.

[Troy Loney]

It's also pretty hilarious to frame debate as though we're all just irrationally against Trump and thus can't constructively discuss politics without immediately resorting to that. Trump is a uniquely abhorrent politician, and if you are dismissing that sentiment because you think "they're all scum", then you are basically just wandering around in a self-induced coma.

Sure point to me, or Factorial, or Trip complaining about Trump, that's easy (and lazy), but that is just conveniently ignoring that Trump's unique awfulness that is pushing folks like Morkle, KTK, Ulf, SDD to voting democrat.

[mikey]

Maybe it's just the vocal minority that like to hear themselves talk, but why do we (all sides have them) hold people to a standard of you can't change your mind? Once you pick a stance, that's it! It's a weird narrative thrown upon people. I flip flop all the time as things/time change and I understand more. It's always a parade of what this person said in a 2 minute window 10 years ago and we trip over ourselves to call them out on it.

Even if what he said 2 years ago is correct, doesn't make what he says now less correct. Also, doesn't mean that the stance on criminal justice can't change. Too many people who can't/won't think for themselves so we shoehorn one direction. Maybe that's the issue. They know this and shout, "see, they changed their mind! And people sit around and say, you know this person is right. Topic or circumstance be damned.

The standard is the standard. If someone's life is ruined by something they said in 1983, that infers that people can't evolve. Currently in this country the social pendulum has swung to the left and this cancel culture has been captured by, generously, the far left. As such, they don't get the benefit to walk back on their thoughts from the past.

Now, of course, I don't believe in any of that because it's crazy. But this is what I talk about here fairly often, the target is now on your back when you try to do the moral maintenance (wo)man job...do you uphold it? Or does it not apply when it's your own people?

I am all for positions evolving...I know mine have over the years certainly, quite a bit in fact...but you make an uncomfortable bed to lay in sometimes...

[mikey]

This is why it’s hard for me to understand people saying Harris is the tipping point for keeping Trump in office

Besides dodint, who is saying that?

nobody said he’d have to think about voting Biden now and Mikey seemed to be questioning it maybe (although don’t know if he votes)? That said, I don’t think it’s a big group.

If you are not voting for Biden "because Harris", you were never voting for Biden.

I am not sure which posts you are referring to for sure, but I think you meant Dodint's post about her prosecutor background going against the current cultural tides, which is definitely a legit critique, especially because Biden's criminal justice background is gross.

That said, I think think you have to look at persuadable voters, I would argue that Ulf and Blackjack fit that profile more than the folks you are citing. And by persuadable voter, I just mean people that have weaker political convictions. This board is not a strong representation for the US as whole, probably almost 95% white/college educated/male, which is normally GOP bread and butter (except the board trends 20's and 30's). Considering how strongly women and minorities are going to go democrat this election, pulling those persuadable voters from this bloc seems relevant to me.

He said, “besides dodint,” so I was referencing the other two. I agree with the rest of what you say. I was just talking about the few itt, but don’t think it’s a real problem.

Just to be clear, and I answered this way after a relatively long discussion with a Democratic pollster last weekend...I was an unlikely Biden voter, I remain an unlikely Biden voter. I leave the door open for Captain Stupid to push me further into Biden territory (I wouldn't have been even "unlikely" without him) but the VP pick is just the funny incompetence of the Democratic Party of the last 20 to 40 years...it doesn't have a particularly big impact on me, the individual voter. The VP isn't a real job anyway...

[grunthy]

It's also pretty hilarious to frame debate as though we're all just irrationally against Trump and thus can't constructively discuss politics without immediately resorting to that. Trump is a uniquely abhorrent politician, and if you are dismissing that sentiment because you think "they're all scum", then you are basically just wandering around in a self-induced coma.

Sure point to me, or Factorial, or Trip complaining about Trump, that's easy (and lazy), but that is just conveniently ignoring that Trump's unique awfulness that is pushing folks like Morkle, KTK, Ulf, SDD to voting democrat.

I think his point is that some of you literally cannot discuss anything related to politics without resorting to derrrr trump is the worst.... No **** he is uniquely awful. Some people would like a conversation that doesn't devolve to derrr trump dumb, Trump this, Trump that.

[Troy Loney]

It's also pretty hilarious to frame debate as though we're all just irrationally against Trump and thus can't constructively discuss politics without immediately resorting to that. Trump is a uniquely abhorrent politician, and if you are dismissing that sentiment because you think "they're all scum", then you are basically just wandering around in a self-induced coma.

Sure point to me, or Factorial, or Trip complaining about Trump, that's easy (and lazy), but that is just conveniently ignoring that Trump's unique awfulness that is pushing folks like Morkle, KTK, Ulf, SDD to voting democrat.

I think his point is that some of you literally cannot discuss anything related to politics without resorting to derrrr trump is the worst.... No **** he is uniquely awful. Some people would like a conversation that doesn't devolve to derrr trump dumb, Trump this, Trump that.

Then don't engage? When I expressed the same sentiment about the statue discussion a handful of posters started acting like they were being cancelled, or silenced or something. And I have learned my lesson, it looks to have emboldened that discussion and we have to endure daily protest updates from the Pacific Northwest.

[grunthy]

Some posted legitimate criticism about Harris, but it almost immediately turned into trump is the worst. Why is it ok for you guys to deflect criticisms of your party's people by deflecting to the other party, but it is laughed at when the other side does it?

[eddy]

While we're on the subject and because I do get pleasure in talking about how much of a shriveled up old cack he is, these 2 back to back like this are so odd

[nocera]

Oh I see we're once again going with the "brown people are invading your neighborhood" tactic this year.

[MR25]

It's also pretty hilarious to frame debate as though we're all just irrationally against Trump and thus can't constructively discuss politics without immediately resorting to that. Trump is a uniquely abhorrent politician, and if you are dismissing that sentiment because you think "they're all scum", then you are basically just wandering around in a self-induced coma.

Sure point to me, or Factorial, or Trip complaining about Trump, that's easy (and lazy), but that is just conveniently ignoring that Trump's unique awfulness that is pushing folks like Morkle, KTK, Ulf, SDD to voting democrat.

I think his point is that some of you literally cannot discuss anything related to politics without resorting to derrrr trump is the worst.... No **** he is uniquely awful. Some people would like a conversation that doesn't devolve to derrr trump dumb, Trump this, Trump that.

And there's a group of you who cannot discuss Trump without resorting to "herr derr both sides" and deflecting legitimate criticism.

It goes both ways.

[Troy Loney]

Some posted legitimate criticism about Harris, but it almost immediately turned into trump is the worst. Why is it ok for you guys to deflect criticisms of your party's people by deflecting to the other party, but it is laughed at when the other side does it?

Probably the nature of a "two party election", but don't see the sequence you are alluding to in the thread. Was it the comment about Kamala attacking Biden at the debate about busing?

But, guess I don't know how to answer that. The tenor of the post-Kamala announcement seems to be, "meh, doesn't matter, Trump is terribad",

[mikey]

It's also pretty hilarious to frame debate as though we're all just irrationally against Trump and thus can't constructively discuss politics without immediately resorting to that. Trump is a uniquely abhorrent politician, and if you are dismissing that sentiment because you think "they're all scum", then you are basically just wandering around in a self-induced coma.

Sure point to me, or Factorial, or Trip complaining about Trump, that's easy (and lazy), but that is just conveniently ignoring that Trump's unique awfulness that is pushing folks like Morkle, KTK, Ulf, SDD to voting democrat.

I think his point is that some of you literally cannot discuss anything related to politics without resorting to derrrr trump is the worst.... No **** he is uniquely awful. Some people would like a conversation that doesn't devolve to derrr trump dumb, Trump this, Trump that.

And there's a group of you who cannot discuss Trump without resorting to "herr derr both sides" and deflecting legitimate criticism.

It goes both ways.

Did...did you...did you just "both sides" a "both sides"...? It's so early in the morning though...



EDIT: Ah ****, it's 10 am ?!?! **** me...