Politics And Current Events

MR25
Posts: 18481
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:58 pm
Location: Gamehendge

Politics And Current Events

Postby MR25 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:50 pm

I agree with MR25 to a large extent for sure, but it's one of those things where I don't know a good answer to solving that problem. Like you said, paying attention in school and doing well is not only not popular in inner cities, but kids are often beat up/tormented/intimidated for daring to actually give a sht in school. I've heard countless horror stories from teachers in urban schools who have said repeatedly that money is not the problem, it's cultural. One anecdote that comes to mind involved a whole host of kids just chucking their school-issued laptops down the stairs over and over again because it was funny.

Just like any other major cultural change, you have to get them while they're young. But with how awful so many of the parents are, even if you theoretically provide "equal opportunity", I'm admittedly skeptical much will change. A butt-ton of money is sunk into inner-city schools every year but if there is no will on the part of the students, what can you do? No child is born "bad".

I agree that parenting would help, but I think your point is ignoring that the parents (and their parents, and their parents and...) were all part of this system of lack of opportunities and education, and the cycle has just been on repeat because it's obvious nothing is being done to change it (you can point to more money in schools, but it's the utilization of those funds that truly matters, not how much).

All these issues stem from the systemic lack of opportunity.

Kraftster
Posts: 2073
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:22 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Kraftster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:52 pm

Bottom line, neither the penalties and obstacles for bad luck nor the rewards for good luck should be as great as they are. We should aim to cancel the effect that luck has on the quality of one's life.

On average, BIPOC are (unquestionably) more likely to face bad luck. You can cherry pick unlucky white people, and the sorts of systemic changes that are needed for BIPOC will probably address some of those cherry-picked cases too. There will continue to be bad luck that requires more precise remedial measures (on all sides), but maybe we'll have a better approach once we've addressed the more glaring problems.

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Politics And Current Events

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Imagine the advantage the urban kid has when it comes to access to libraries, NGO's, and government support systems to the rural kid in Mingo County or Elk County.

MR25
Posts: 18481
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:58 pm
Location: Gamehendge

Politics And Current Events

Postby MR25 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:58 pm

Imagine the disadvantages that kid has because he's black and is immediately seen as suspicious just for looking around a library alone.

nocera
Posts: 41740
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 am
Location: He/Him

Politics And Current Events

Postby nocera » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:00 pm

Just to clarify something here: white privilege does not mean that your life as a white person is easy and without extreme challenges. It just means that the color of your skin isn't making your life harder.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27518
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:03 pm

Bottom line, neither the penalties and obstacles for bad luck nor the rewards for good luck should be as great as they are. We should aim to cancel the effect that luck has on the quality of one's life.

On average, BIPOC are (unquestionably) more likely to face bad luck. You can cherry pick unlucky white people, and the sorts of systemic changes that are needed for BIPOC will probably address some of those cherry-picked cases too. There will continue to be bad luck that requires more precise remedial measures (on all sides), but maybe we'll have a better approach once we've addressed the more glaring problems.
I also think this is why systemic police reform is fundamental. This isn't to do with the brutality aspect, it's the petty harassment that black people experience in the form of routine traffic stops/former stop and frisk policies. This then translates into these kids being infinitely more likely to come out of their youth with a criminal record for **** like drug possession. And then being an ex-con creates BS obstacles to getting into certain professions.

willeyeam
Posts: 39565
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 pm
Location: hodgepodge of nothingness

Politics And Current Events

Postby willeyeam » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:04 pm

Just to clarify something here: white privilege does not mean that your life as a white person is easy and without extreme challenges. It just means that the color of your skin isn't making your life harder.
Yes. We've discussed this a lot in a leadership training I'm doing at work. A lot of people hate the saying because to them it implies they didn't work hard for what they have, or that it was easy. That's not it at all

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
Posts: 29201
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
Location: (=^_^=)

Politics And Current Events

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:08 pm

The whole "black on black crime" thing is a red herring to distract from the actual issue that is causing/has caused the violence and the turning toward it in the first place.

When black people can't/couldn't get jobs via legitimate ventures because of the system in place, how do you expect that to turn out?
this is where I disagree

it's such a lame excuse to say "there is systematic oppression therefore calling out that blacks are responsible for the majority of the homicides in the US is bad". It's not a red herring, BOTH can and should be issues we talk about

for example, there has been a recent push for "black trans lives matters" and to call out violence against those in the trans community, especially those of color. You know who commits the most violence against black trans people? black men.

white supremacy is absolutely an issue in this country but as I said before, completely absolving the entire black community of any wrongdoing is so terribly unhelpful

Kraftster
Posts: 2073
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:22 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Kraftster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm

The whole "black on black crime" thing is a red herring to distract from the actual issue that is causing/has caused the violence and the turning toward it in the first place.

When black people can't/couldn't get jobs via legitimate ventures because of the system in place, how do you expect that to turn out?
this is where I disagree

it's such a lame excuse to say "there is systematic oppression therefore calling out that blacks are responsible for the majority of the homicides in the US is bad". It's not a red herring, BOTH can and should be issues we talk about

for example, there has been a recent push for "black trans lives matters" and to call out violence against those in the trans community, especially those of color. You know who commits the most violence against black trans people? black men.

white supremacy is absolutely an issue in this country but as I said before, completely absolving the entire black community of any wrongdoing is so terribly unhelpful
But that is not the target. The target is economic inequality, from which nearly everything else flows. This is my concern with overemphasizing the police brutality problem (which is real). It is one of my issues that stems from a root cause that will not be touched even with the best possible police reform.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27518
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:16 pm


white supremacy is absolutely an issue in this country but as I said before, completely absolving the entire black community of any wrongdoing is so terribly unhelpful
What does that even mean? Crime is bad, citing "black on black" crime is a red herring because it is irrelevant to the issue. Hate crime laws were written to address the issue of white supremacy manifesting as actual violence. The issues that people are trying to look at today involve the way laws were written to continue to subjugate the black populations after KKK type terrorism became internationally untenable.

shafnutz05
Posts: 50381
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Politics And Current Events

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:16 pm

Bottom line, neither the penalties and obstacles for bad luck nor the rewards for good luck should be as great as they are. We should aim to cancel the effect that luck has on the quality of one's life.

On average, BIPOC are (unquestionably) more likely to face bad luck. You can cherry pick unlucky white people, and the sorts of systemic changes that are needed for BIPOC will probably address some of those cherry-picked cases too. There will continue to be bad luck that requires more precise remedial measures (on all sides), but maybe we'll have a better approach once we've addressed the more glaring problems.
I also think this is why systemic police reform is fundamental. This isn't to do with the brutality aspect, it's the petty harassment that black people experience in the form of routine traffic stops/former stop and frisk policies. This then translates into these kids being infinitely more likely to come out of their youth with a criminal record for **** like drug possession. And then being an ex-con creates BS obstacles to getting into certain professions.
Agree for sure. The damage that the war on drugs has wrought has been discussed ad nauseam in here and I think we are all in agreement there. The other problem is that, especially in inner cities, there are *way* too many young people between the ages of 12-18 that are out getting into trouble and getting involved in bad stuff.

As passionate as I feel about the importance of a stable, traditional, and supportive family in the upbringing of children, that is one area where I do feel that Hillary was (gulp) right in that it takes a village in certain instances. And that means policing your own neighborhoods and watching out for the children before they get lured into the pervasive gang culture. That said, there are also many good mothers that try their damnedest to keep their kids out of trouble, and I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is to watch one's own child get sucked into the criminal life despite your best efforts. They need more local success stories, no doubt.

shafnutz05
Posts: 50381
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Location: A moron or a fascist...but not both.

Politics And Current Events

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:20 pm

Not to completely switch gears here, but I thought this was a very interesting read.

https://environmentalprogress.org/big-n ... mate-scare
On behalf of environmentalists everywhere, I would like to formally apologize for the climate scare we created over the last 30 years. Climate change is happening. It’s just not the end of the world. It’s not even our most serious environmental problem.

I may seem like a strange person to be saying all of this. I have been a climate activist for 20 years and an environmentalist for 30.

But as an energy expert asked by Congress to provide objective expert testimony, and invited by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to serve as Expert Reviewer of its next Assessment Report, I feel an obligation to apologize for how badly we environmentalists have misled the public.

Here are some facts few people know:

Humans are not causing a “sixth mass extinction”

The Amazon is not “the lungs of the world”

Climate change is not making natural disasters worse

Fires have declined 25% around the world since 2003

The amount of land we use for meat — humankind’s biggest use of land — has declined by an area nearly as large as Alaska

The build-up of wood fuel and more houses near forests, not climate change, explain why there are more, and more dangerous, fires in Australia and California

Carbon emissions are declining in most rich nations and have been declining in Britain, Germany, and France since the mid-1970s

Netherlands became rich not poor while adapting to life below sea level

We produce 25% more food than we need and food surpluses will continue to rise as the world gets hotter

Habitat loss and the direct killing of wild animals are bigger threats to species than climate change

Wood fuel is far worse for people and wildlife than fossil fuels

Preventing future pandemics requires more not less “industrial” agriculture

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
Posts: 29201
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
Location: (=^_^=)

Politics And Current Events

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:24 pm


white supremacy is absolutely an issue in this country but as I said before, completely absolving the entire black community of any wrongdoing is so terribly unhelpful
What does that even mean? Crime is bad, citing "black on black" crime is a red herring because it is irrelevant to the issue. Hate crime laws were written to address the issue of white supremacy manifesting as actual violence. The issues that people are trying to look at today involve the way laws were written to continue to subjugate the black populations after KKK type terrorism became internationally untenable.
it's irrelevant to the issue because people on one side are narrowly scoping the issue. Of course it's irrelevant when the subject of the issue is "dismantle white supremacy". I think it should be part of the conversation because in the conversation of race, no group should not look at their own community critically and think about how they can improve

a black woman whom I'm friends with on Facebook and I thought it was really interesting
So sad to read that a 3yr old boy was fatally shot and killed in Chicago over Father’s Day weekend, including 13 others who were fatally shot. There were 104 shootings from Fri-Mon and no one is protesting and talking about innocent minors who were shot and killed. No one is talking about the people who were killed in Charlotte during a Juneteenth block party. Do black lives really matter? Or only when it’s a white guy shooting blacks? Where are the protests and the outrage in Chicago and Charlotte? If your little black sons/daughters, your black husband, brother, uncle, grandpa matter then you need to be protesting black on black crime. Satan is the master of deception and some of y’all are so deceived you can’t even accept the fact that this is a SERIOUS problem within the black community. But you’re so focused on a small percentage of black deaths by the hands of white cops. You can be tired of police brutality but you’re not tired of your young black brothers and sisters dying at the hands of other blacks. You can be tired of racism but you’re not tired of the gang violence, drugs, and crime within your own community. If you’re gonna be “tired” be tired of ALL of it. And the thing that upsets me the most about that 3yr old baby is that his OWN FATHER won’t cooperate with the police when he was the intended target, but instead would rather retaliate instead of getting justice for the death of his baby boy. The fact that when things like this happens and no one speaks up, your loyalty is not to your family but the streets that kill your family members that you cry on TV about and get t-shirts that say free a murderer. I just can’t.
I'm not saying white people are innocent and black people are all evil. Obviously that's stupid. But this is not a one way street. It's not "white people are the source of all problems in the world". That's not helpful and only works to divide us

MR25
Posts: 18481
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:58 pm
Location: Gamehendge

Politics And Current Events

Postby MR25 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

One could argue you're just as narrow in your scope.

You're focused on black killing each other without taking into consideration why it's happening, which is what the whole discussion was revolving around. You're not even attempting to entertain a notion that there's been generational cause and effect to get to this point.

Kraftster
Posts: 2073
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:22 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Kraftster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm

Bottom line, neither the penalties and obstacles for bad luck nor the rewards for good luck should be as great as they are. We should aim to cancel the effect that luck has on the quality of one's life.

On average, BIPOC are (unquestionably) more likely to face bad luck. You can cherry pick unlucky white people, and the sorts of systemic changes that are needed for BIPOC will probably address some of those cherry-picked cases too. There will continue to be bad luck that requires more precise remedial measures (on all sides), but maybe we'll have a better approach once we've addressed the more glaring problems.
I also think this is why systemic police reform is fundamental. This isn't to do with the brutality aspect, it's the petty harassment that black people experience in the form of routine traffic stops/former stop and frisk policies. This then translates into these kids being infinitely more likely to come out of their youth with a criminal record for **** like drug possession. And then being an ex-con creates BS obstacles to getting into certain professions.
Yes, I agree. That is a big component of the obstacles that flow from bad luck. When you add this into economic disparity, the walls to real opportunity are very high.

MalkinIsMyHomeboy
Posts: 29201
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:45 pm
Location: (=^_^=)

Politics And Current Events

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:31 pm

One could argue you're just as narrow in your scope.

You're focused on black killing each other without taking into consideration why it's happening, which is what the whole discussion was revolving around. You're not even attempting to entertain a notion that there's been generational cause and effect to get to this point.
I never said that's the only thing in scope. I said both should be discussed: posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=800692#pr800679

I'm sure economic inequality is absolutely one factor as to the reasons. I would bet that's not the only reason

Kraftster
Posts: 2073
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:22 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Kraftster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pm

One could argue you're just as narrow in your scope.

You're focused on black killing each other without taking into consideration why it's happening, which is what the whole discussion was revolving around. You're not even attempting to entertain a notion that there's been generational cause and effect to get to this point.
I never said that's the only thing in scope. I said both should be discussed: posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=800692#pr800679

I'm sure economic inequality is absolutely one factor as to the reasons. I would bet that's not the only reason
I think the issue is you may be putting symptoms on the level of disease for discussion. We can discuss symptoms until blue in the face, but unless there's an effort to get at the disease, the best we can do is get palliative relief.

Trip McNeely
Posts: 8813
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:02 am

Politics And Current Events

Postby Trip McNeely » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:41 pm

I don’t really think people really understand what white privilege actually means. This isn’t about opportunity urban black people have vs rural whites. Poor people both get shitty opportunities and it’s hard to make it rich when you start out poor. It’s definitely a part of the overall issue, but it’s not what white privilege is.

It’s about how an urban black is much more likely of getting stopped by cops driving in Fox Chapel vs a rural white dude. It’s about how a black guy acting like a drunk ass at a bar in the Southside is much more likely to go to the slam vs a white bro doing the same thing. Its about equality, equality across economic statuses. A poor white dude is pretty screwed, but a poor black guy is really f’d

tifosi77
Posts: 51514
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:07 pm
Location: Batuu

Politics And Current Events

Postby tifosi77 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:48 pm

^^^ What Trip said.

Morkle
Posts: 23026
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:09 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Politics And Current Events

Postby Morkle » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:05 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/politics ... index.html

Senate strips provision from intelligence bill requiring campaigns to report foreign election help
The Senate will incorporate the annual intelligence policy legislation into the National Defense Authorization Act -- but only after stripping language from the intelligence bill that would have required presidential campaigns to report offers of foreign election help.

Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Tuesday that Senate Republicans forced the removal of the election reporting provision as a condition to include the intelligence bill on the must-pass defense policy legislation.

Earlier this month, the Senate Intelligence Committee approved an amendment on an 8-7 vote from Warner and GOP Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, which added a provision to the Intelligence Authorization Act requiring campaigns to notify federal authorities about offers of foreign election help.
That bill, however, was unlikely to get Senate floor time on its own, which is why it's being included in the National Defense Authorization Act. The effort to strip the foreign election help provision from the intelligence bill was not a surprise, as acting Senate Intelligence Chairman Marco Rubio, a Florida Republican, predicted earlier this month it would be removed before the bill was on the floor, because of an objection from the Senate Rules Committee.

Warner bemoaned what he called a "back-room deal" to strip out the provision.

"If my Republican colleagues want to strip this legislation out of the NDAA behind closed doors, then I'm going to offer it up as an amendment to force an up-or-down vote and put every member of this body on the record," Warner said on the Senate floor.
Too bad they object when it tries to get to the floor.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27518
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:09 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/us/p ... gence.html

Dang, whoever is feeding this story to the times had the receipts.
American officials intercepted electronic data showing large financial transfers from a bank account controlled by Russia’s military intelligence agency to a Taliban-linked account, which was among the evidence that supported their conclusion that Russia covertly offered bounties for killing U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan, according to three officials familiar with the intelligence.

Though the United States has accused Russia of providing general support to the Taliban before, analysts concluded from other intelligence that the transfers were most likely part of a bounty program that detainees described during interrogations. Investigators also identified by name numerous Afghans in a network linked to the suspected Russian operation, the officials said — including, two of them added, a man believed to have served as an intermediary for distributing some of the funds and who is now thought to be in Russia.

The intercepts bolstered the findings gleaned from the interrogations, helping reduce an earlier disagreement among intelligence analysts and agencies over the reliability of the detainees. The disclosures further undercut White House officials’ claim that the intelligence was too uncertain to brief President Trump. In fact, the information was provided to him in his daily written brief in late February, two officials have said.

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Politics And Current Events

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm

The way some people talk about African-Americans is incredibly patronizing.

faftorial
Posts: 14820
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm
Location: Lengeschder

Politics And Current Events

Postby faftorial » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:13 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/us/p ... gence.html

Dang, whoever is feeding this story to the times had the receipts.


Deep state actors.

Trip McNeely
Posts: 8813
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:02 am

Politics And Current Events

Postby Trip McNeely » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:14 pm

The way some people talk about African-Americans is incredibly patronizing.
😂

Freddy Rumsen
Posts: 35313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:50 am
Location: "Order is the only possibility of rest." -- Wendell Berry

Politics And Current Events

Postby Freddy Rumsen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:38 pm

Not sure why this is "breaking"


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nuge and 109 guests