Politics And Current Events

[MWB]

This is going to come across as a judgement of KC, but it’s really not meant that way. This is part of the problem with these discussions, IMO. I was trying to make the point that this black guy feels the need to tell his kids the most important part of learning to drive is how you interact with cops, and that was something that made me think. The response of, I was taught to respect officers too, is... I’m not sure what. Who cares? And maybe my story was pointless too, so I should just shut up. I guess I don’t understand the need for people, and I’m sure I do it too, to draw a comparison to some of these things.

[Trip McNeely]

Going back to his ole favorite of trying to divide the country as much as he can....great leadership

[nocera]

No saying that KC was going this, but that's a tactic done to invalidate an argument.

[King Colby]

I do not feel threatened

K. So what's the discussion about, exactly?

That more than just black people should teach their kids how to interact with police officers. However I have been informed that I am incorrect.

Well, I think you're missing the point here. You were taught how to interact with police officers. "Yes Sir" and "No Sir", hands on the steering wheel. I was taught similarly, but when I was taught that, it was with the understanding that if I did those things, everything would work out for me and I have no reason to fear what a cop might do. Black kids are likely taught "yes sir" and "no sir", but with the caveat that even if they do that, there's a likely chance that they will not come out of the situation okay. It's not going to work out for them. So while, yes... all parents teach kids how to interact with police officers, it's completely different for black people in this country.

Do you really believe that if a black person is respectful and obedient there's a "likely chance" of not coming out of the situation ok?

I'll give you "less unlikely than a white person"

[King Colby]

This is going to come across as a judgement of KC, but it’s really not meant that way. This is part of the problem with these discussions, IMO. I was trying to make the point that this black guy feels the need to tell his kids the most important part of learning to drive is how you interact with cops, and that was something that made me think. The response of, I was taught to respect officers too, is... I’m not sure what. Who cares? And maybe my story was pointless too, so I should just shut up. I guess I don’t understand the need for people, and I’m sure I do it too, to draw a comparison to some of these things.

Not my intention. Actually my intention was not to discredit you but to add color to what you said, as you and I coming from different sides have still shown to have meaningful conversations. The Meh was a poor word choice. Blacks are more likely to have a police encounter go wrong, we have already established that, but i think its important for everyone to know how to best interact with cops. I have a punk 18 yr old cousin who acted like a hardass to cops recently during a traffic stop and he ended up in a lot worse shape than he would have been if he was respectful.

MR25 decided to start **** but thats his MO lately.

[MR25]

I guess I'll be the bigger man and just point out that your post came off incredibly dismissive.

I don't see that as starting **** but if you want to go there, sure.

[count2infinity]

Do you really believe that if a black person is respectful and obedient there's a "likely chance" of not coming out of the situation ok?

I'll give you "less unlikely than a white person"

Meant to say "likely a chance" rather than "a likely chance"... Yes. I do believe that, and certainly far more likely than a white person.

[mikey]

I guess I'll be the bigger man and just point out that your post came off incredibly dismissive.

I don't see that as starting **** but if you want to go there, sure.

I get this is emotional, but you're not on social media here. Too many of your posts just sound like, "sssssssssccccccccccccccrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeccccchhh"

We got it. But you can't read out of that playbook on every post. I mean, you can...you can do whatever you want...but this buzzword sprinkler style is transparent and not super becoming. And I'm not saying you have an ulterior motive or that you don't feel strongly or anything like that. But it's tough to have 9 out of 10 posts start with, "Hey ****head, a, a, a, b, b, b" - no one hears anything after, "hey ****head" - it just creates a defensive situation for that person. It serves to divide. Intent or not.

And that's not to say it's not the right play sometimes...but if you really care about your message, you can't keep going back that well so often...it's not effective communication when used so often. Imagine if every email that you complain about in the Job thread that contained a task for you contained "Rush/Urgent/Emergency!" after like the third one, you're like, "they can't all be rushed...that's not how work works." Here we are.

[MR25]

I guess I can't just continue to sit around and watch people dismiss things because they don't understand them because they've never had to deal with the issue.

This past week has been a lot of points being made in support of the black community and then a lot of people saying "Well, yeah, but..." and then completely dismissing the point (and in some cases trying to turn it back on the black community, like shad saying "but black people commit more crime"... Sure, that may be true, but that has nothing to do with the situation at hand and trying to deflect the meaning of the current movement back like that is incredibly hard to sit back and watch someone do - especially someone who claims to be (and generally is) a good person).

The dismissive-ness is grating to me. Do I think I could word things differently? Sure. But I, personally, am having trouble sitting here and watching people create excuse after excuse for why we shouldn't be sitting back and listening to the black community on this one and dismissing their opinions. And so it comes out in my posts.

I am sorry if my wording offends people or comes across as crass/in-your-face, but I feel strongly about this.

[mikey]

Hey, you're not wrong. But you're just not in an environment where this is gonna do anything (personally, I don't think there's very many times or avenues to carry out talking to someone like that, but I don't shout at people...I'm a borderline comatose human being though in ordinary situations). If you feel strongly, take it to the streets, my man. Write a strongly-worded check. We're a bunch white dudes discussing it on a hockey message board for a team located in the nothernmost Southern city in the United States. And discussions can go off the rails and emotions can run high, and that's fine. But you're gonna get lost in the wash because you're gonna keep coming at it with this pitbull energy on a place where it doesn't matter...and I'm not saying you're not out there doing work, I'm just saying King Colby ain't gonna do sh*t (probably, I don't ******* know him haha)...if you're gonna convince anyone of anything, it's never ever gonna start with, "hey ****ring, yeah, you with the small ****!" like no one's gonna be like, "huh, I bet he's got some productive, thought-provoking ideas on the matter, let me listen real close"

That's all. You're free to do what you want, any old time...but just saying, you're mad at your government, not King Colby, not NAN (well, I mean, we're all kinda mad at NAN, but now's not the time), not your dad...let's discuss it like the semi-mature, kind of sexy adults that we are...that's all I'm saying...

[MR25]

I get lost in the wash when I post normally, so... guess much wouldn't change?

[malkintent]

Look at the length of these posts, boys. It looks like Jesse and @mikey doing Rd 6 d prospect analysis.

Mini novellas everywhere.

[tifosi77]

Well, allow me to retort and add to that.

"I get it" and "I don't feel threatened" on the same page of posts..... does not really compute.

The focus lately has been on the violent use-of-force incidents, and that's not wrong. But there's a whole spectrum of mistreatment by police that falls under "they will not come out of the situation okay", which feeds into that elevated personal risk. Prolonged detainment; custodial offenses (e.g. cuffing and stuffing); unlawful search of the person and/or vehicle; physical mistreatment; unwarranted use of force (remember, the George Floyd thing arose from an accusation of passing a fake $20 bill and was escalated to a - fatal - use-of-force incident because he fell down). All of those things are way more likely to happen to black people than to white people, and that's broadly true regardless of the race of the officers in question; it's a policing issue, not necessarily a police-are-full-of-racists thing.

And all of that's not even broaching the disparate level of policing people of color endure, and the demonstrable fact that African Americans get pulled over at wildly disproportionate rates during daylight hours (when the race of the driver is more easily ascertained at a distance). So they are far more likely to find themselves in a police encounter in the first place. The closest I've ever come to experiencing that is as a bystander/witness.

[shafnutz05]

I don't seem to recall the wanton property destruction, arson, looting, murder, assault, etc. when all the heavily armed rednecks stood around state capitols for a day or so and eventually just went home.

I guess not having to trash high end stores and loot is white privilege, or something.

[MR25]

Source of the post I don't seem to recall the wanton property destruction, arson, looting, murder, assault, etc. when all the heavily armed rednecks stood around state capitols for a day or so and eventually just went home.

You also didn't see the police respond to their protests with riot shields, even though the protestors were armed.

In fact, most of the police just stood there and let the protestors yell in their faces and wave their guns around.

Counterpoint:



You didn't see cops arresting those people yelling at them and getting in their face.

[shafnutz05]

Dude I'm on your side regarding the police brutality angle. I've been very consistent in the respect.

That said, are you making the argument that the only reason looting/rioting is happening is bc of law enforcement response? Because that is patently false. Rioting and looting has been a pretty distinctive trait of BLM/Antifa instigated unrest going back to Ferguson and beyond.

The police are behaving very badly but no one is forcing these people to loot, riot, and generally act like wild animals.

[Shyster]

Wolf calls for police oversight, troopers association calls it an attack on law enforcement

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/ ... forcement/

So it took one day for the police to start fighting the reform efforts.

[MR25]

No.

I'm saying there's a disproportionate response to the COVID gun-carriers vs the BLM protestors, and I'm not even talking rioting.

The man above was arrested for... talking to the cops?

Why is he being treated in that manner (and he was not the only one to be arrested just talking to police), but the COVID protestors yelling (sometimes shoving) and breaking into legislative buildings get treated with kid gloves?

Why is it that Donald Trump calls the COVID protestors "very good people" for storming a government building (some armed), but gasses peaceful BLM protestors for a photo op?

Do you think COVID protestors would've been treated the same way if they were black and carrying guns to/into government buildings?

[Shyster]

One of the greatest examples of cognitive dissonance for people on the right/conservative spectrum is their view of the police and military. People on the right often say they don't trust the government. Many (rightly, IMO) say that the Second Amendment exists in order to guard against government tyranny. But when it comes to the police and military, many on the right have a fawning deference that borders on outright bootlicking. Don't like the government? Don't trust the government? The cops and military are part of the government.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Jackiechanheadshake.gif

[malkintent]

Let's get rid of police "unions".

[MR25]

I have feelings about this too, and it ties in to the point I was trying to make above, but I'm having a hard time articulating exactly how it fits...

If black people showed up to the COVID protests and stood there with guns drawn, how do you think the COVID protestors (also with guns) would have taken that?

[grunthy]

My wife had a fraudulent unemployment claim against her name. Got a letter from USPS that said her unemployment claim was filed. News to her since she still has a job. We know of at least 8 people this has happened to. I wonder how many it has happened to, it seems pretty rampant?

[shafnutz05]

Let's get rid of police "unions".

I feel the same way about teachers unions though. They both protect way too many shitty members.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I have feelings about this too, and it ties in to the point I was trying to make above, but I'm having a hard time articulating exactly how it fits...

If black people showed up to the COVID protests and stood there with guns drawn, how do you think the COVID protestors (also with guns) would have taken that?

It's happened all week in Atlanta. Here is one example.