Politics And Current Events

[Freddy Rumsen]

I mean that's one of the common themes on both The Wire and The Shield.

[NAN]

Source of the post How long has police brutality been a concern already though? And what systemic changes can we make that actually answer to these very real concerns...?

You can't address all of it at once. But, if you go case by case and actually stop "protecting your own" and convict those responsible, maybe a cop would think twice before stepping over the line.

I do agree with this. This would be a HUGE step.

Now, people saying the guy has been arrested yet, it's because hopefully the prosectutors are building up a strong case against the guy. You can't just half ass this and go in quickly, but sloppy, or you'll be back at square one. It's going to take a lot to prove this was murder and properly prosecute the guy, and that is going to take time. Hopefully it will be done properly. And if it does, I think that is a strong step in the right direction and makes a bad cop think twice.

[skullman80]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

[eddy]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I touched on it earlier but I think it goes back to local/state PDs being too ingrained in the local/state government and the only way for real action to be taken is if something came down federally.

But again, the Feds are in some ways worse than local police.

I know there's a popular theme that things didn't start changing in the Civil Rights South until the FBI came down but in reality what changed things was education and making it socially unacceptable not really to not be a klansman, but getting rid of the kind of soft genteel racism of class.

[grunthy]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

TO say it hasn't gotten better at all, is being blind.

[nocera]

It hasn't. It's just more veiled now.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Something good.

[skullman80]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

TO say it hasn't gotten better at all, is being blind.

*sigh* You pick that out of my whole post. I don't really feel like engaging at this point. It's not worth it.

[MR25]

I touched on it earlier but I think it goes back to local/state PDs being too ingrained in the local/state government and the only way for real action to be taken is if something came down federally.

But again, the Feds are in some ways worse than local police.

I know there's a popular theme that things didn't start changing in the Civil Rights South until the FBI came down but in reality what changed things was education and making it socially unacceptable not really to not be a klansman, but getting rid of the kind of soft genteel racism of class.

I'm not saying the FBI.

I'm saying, at the federal level, there needs to be a change. A body that should hold PDs accountable. Theoretically that would fall under the Department of Justice.

A body that doesn't have to take local politics or elections into account. One to say "You cannot keep doing this" and actually provides consequences for the actions taken by bad cops.

[grunthy]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

TO say it hasn't gotten better at all, is being blind.

*sigh* You pick that out of my whole post. I don't really feel like engaging at this point. It's not worth it.

I agree with a lot of your post, just not that specific point. I will never know what being discriminated on feels like. People in my family know what it feels like. There is zero reason to be rude.

[skullman80]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

TO say it hasn't gotten better at all, is being blind.

*sigh* You pick that out of my whole post. I don't really feel like engaging at this point. It's not worth it.

I agree with a lot of your post, just not that specific point. I will never know what being discriminated on feels like. People in my family know what it feels like. There is zero reason to be rude.

I didn't know I was being rude, but in any case...

[shoeshine boy]

You have a group/class/race of people who basically have been subjected to being treated like garbage for 100+ years at this point. They have been shown over and over again that they are not equal based on the color of their skin. That their lives don't mean as much as the white guy next to them.

They get beaten, they get killed over and over and over and over again. They get treated like garbage over and over and over. Nothing happens. Nothing has gotten better over the course of time. What do we expect to happen at this point? They have been told from the top on down that they are basically to be viewed as a lesser race. No one has done anything, things have gotten worse. No one listens. In two weeks or so this will be just another footnote of some black guy getting killed by the cops. It's common place at this point and it's disgusting. Then it will happen again and the cycle will continue... over and over and over.

There isn't a person on this board (myself included) that can imagine what that feels like. We are all privileged. We haven't had 100+ years of being treated like garbage and being looked down upon as a lesser race. There is no fear of getting killed during a traffic stop, or while jogging. It's just awful.

well said, @skullman80!
though I wouldn't say that NOTHING has gotten better, it hasn't been enough to make any meaningful difference in the lives of people of this race. I'm sure in 2008, black people in America were convinced that when Obama took office that their lives would begin to get better. any improvement at all was marginal. in 2016 any progress that was made was wiped out in an instant.

on a related note, my mom and brother were police officers so I get the pressure that cops are under but they cannot be allowed to restrain ANYBODY like this. the officer that actually killed this guy and the others who stood there doing nothing and let it happen need to be made examples of.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Here we go with nonsense.

[Gaucho]

what skullman said

[AuthorTony]

I don't think we can assume that cops in these cases would have behaved differently is the victims were white. Race does play a role in this, but it's also a "cop problem" in addition to a racist problem. Too many cops are given carte blanche to murder citizens.

Kelly Thomas, homeless man beaten to death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas

Justine Damond, shot and killed by black cop after she called 911 for help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... ine_Damond

Dennis Wayne Tuttle and Rhogena Ann Nicholas massacred during no knock warrant obtained under false pretenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan_Park_raid

Keith Vidal, mentally ill teen shot and killed in his parent's home.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/ ... index.html

The list is endless.

Are racists and violent people attracted to police work? Does the job make them "trigger happy" out of fear/prejudice? Are they poorly trained? Are the predisposed to violence? It might be all of the above or some of the above.

I'm not discounting racism and I'm not saying all cops are bad, but the country needs to look at how police are trained to deal with high stress situations because, in too many instances, their only solution is violence. It's like the old saying, "When your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail."

[Gaucho]

Rest easy.

[shoeshine boy]

Are racists and violent people attracted to police work? Does the job make them "trigger happy" out of fear/prejudice? Are they poorly trained? Are the predisposed to violence? It might be all of the above or some of the above.

I'm not discounting racism and I'm not saying all cops are bad, but the country needs to look at how police are trained to deal with high stress situations because, in too many instances, their only solution is violence. It's like the old saying, "When your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail."

IMO, police officers are not evaluated enough for psychological issues. police officers should be required to participate in therapy on a regular basis. cops see a lot of messed up things every day but yet the vast majority never seek any kind of counseling because it's considered a sign of weakness by so many.

[shafnutz05]

found this interesting

NPR: New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

this **** is infinitely complex

I don't think this post should be ignored. Does anyone remember this incident? The video is equally as horrific as the Floyd video.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

There have been countless incidents of white people having their civil rights/lives violated by police officers. There have also been numerous incidents in which black cops have mistreated/killed white suspects; needless to say, they don't get the same media coverage because they aren't as interesting. Black people are disproportionately impacted by police brutality, but I think it has a lot more to do with crime statistics than an inherent racism in the police force. It goes back to disparate impact.

Black Americans, despite only making up 13% of the population, commit a much higher percentage of crime in the United States every year. With statistics like that, that adds up to hundreds of thousands more cop/suspect interactions where things can go horribly wrong. Please note that I am not blaming George Floyd, or anyone else that was unjustly murdered for something as benign as trying to pass a fake $20, for this. But to me, this seems to be a problem that continuously feeds into itself.

High rates of both petty and violent crime in black communities --> More arrests/detentions --> Greater number of incidents of police brutality --> protests over treatment of black people by cops --> (Beginning of circle)

IMO, this has far less to do with entrenched racism in the police force and far more to do with systemic, nationwide issues with overly aggressive police officers. I said it before, the Thin Blue Line needs to be cleaned out. Too many former jocks, bullies, and military washouts.

[RonnieFranchise]

I don't think we can assume that cops in these cases would have behaved differently is the victims were white. Race does play a role in this, but it's also a "cop problem" in addition to a racist problem. Too many cops are given carte blanche to murder citizens.

Kelly Thomas, homeless man beaten to death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas

Justine Damond, shot and killed by black cop after she called 911 for help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... ine_Damond

Dennis Wayne Tuttle and Rhogena Ann Nicholas massacred during no knock warrant obtained under false pretenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan_Park_raid

Keith Vidal, mentally ill teen shot and killed in his parent's home.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/ ... index.html

The list is endless.

Are racists and violent people attracted to police work? Does the job make them "trigger happy" out of fear/prejudice? Are they poorly trained? Are the predisposed to violence? It might be all of the above or some of the above.

I'm not discounting racism and I'm not saying all cops are bad, but the country needs to look at how police are trained to deal with high stress situations because, in too many instances, their only solution is violence. It's like the old saying, "When your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail."

I think there is some element of violent people being attracted to it- I’m sure we all know great cops but also that bully from High School who when you found out that he became a cop, you just sat there with a stunned look on your face, knowing this was going to end badly. You know the type.

My brother in law is black and a cop. I feel terrible for him every time this happens.

[Freddy Rumsen]

He's been arrested

[Troy Loney]

found this interesting

NPR: New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

this **** is infinitely complex

I don't think this post should be ignored. Does anyone remember this incident? The video is equally as horrific as the Floyd video.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

There have been countless incidents of white people having their civil rights/lives violated by police officers. There have also been numerous incidents in which black cops have mistreated/killed white suspects; needless to say, they don't get the same media coverage because they aren't as interesting. Black people are disproportionately impacted by police brutality, but I think it has a lot more to do with crime statistics than an inherent racism in the police force. It goes back to disparate impact.

Black Americans, despite only making up 13% of the population, commit a much higher percentage of crime in the United States every year. With statistics like that, that adds up to hundreds of thousands more cop/suspect interactions where things can go horribly wrong. Please note that I am not blaming George Floyd, or anyone else that was unjustly murdered for something as benign as trying to pass a fake $20, for this. But to me, this seems to be a problem that continuously feeds into itself.

High rates of both petty and violent crime in black communities --> More arrests/detentions --> Greater number of incidents of police brutality --> protests over treatment of black people by cops --> (Beginning of circle)

IMO, this has far less to do with entrenched racism in the police force and far more to do with systemic, nationwide issues with overly aggressive police officers. I said it before, the Thin Blue Line needs to be cleaned out. Too many former jocks, bullies, and military washouts.

That’s why I think getting stuck on the disparate treatment is misguided. I think the disparate impact is the issue that should be confronted.

[nocera]

He's been arrested

Good. Now charge him. I wonder how much of this is being done for his own safety.

[AuthorTony]

IMO, this has far less to do with entrenched racism in the police force and far more to do with systemic, nationwide issues with overly aggressive police officers. I said it before, the Thin Blue Line needs to be cleaned out. Too many former jocks, bullies, and military washouts.

I agree, shad. I do think blacks have it worse and that they are more likely to have their murders/assaults dismissed than whites, but we see countless instances where non blacks are also beaten and or killed. This is especially true with the mentally ill and people under the influence. Many in police work just don't have the skills necessary to deal with the stresses of the job and when their actions are so often covered up or dismissed, it only gets worse. We all know the only thing a cop has to do is say, "I was scared" and he's basically guaranteed to be found not guilty. Until that changes, this problem will never improve.

[count2infinity]

He's been arrested

The police arrested a CNN reporter before arresting a man that was caught on film murdering someone. Just bizarre. I have a feeling at least some of this violence would have been squelched had they arrested him as soon as the footage was available.