Politics And Current Events

[obhave]

Yeah, I'm not pro-looting...at all...that said, what's the plan? What does the olive branch look like on a more broad level than this cop being brought to justice...? I legitimately do not have a plan in my head, so I'd be curious to know what some yous think...

It has to start at the police level with better trainings, more crack down on misconduct when they are small, maybe some policy changes (although I'm not sure what that looks like personally). A decrease in the amount of war equipment given to police departments.

[MR25]

What did the reporter do incorrectly here to warrant being arrested?

[Morkle]

Considering the focus of the vast majority of people across the country shifted from "these 4 dadhole cops need to burn" to "look at these dadholes burning innocent people's livelihoods and stealing bedding from target", this reaction is going to cause more division rather than affect change.

It does every single time it happens. I'm sympathetic towards the person that was killed, but this type of stuff just turns me off instantly, when someone gives the greenlight to get back at the world by destroying someone else's livelihood in the name of "protest."

[Trip McNeely]

Yeah, I'm not pro-looting...at all...that said, what's the plan? What does the olive branch look like on a more broad level than this cop being brought to justice...? I legitimately do not have a plan in my head, so I'd be curious to know what some yous think...

It has to start at the police level with better trainings, more crack down on misconduct when they are small, maybe some policy changes (although I'm not sure what that looks like personally). A decrease in the amount of war equipment given to police departments.

I totally agree.

Another problem I see is so many cops are former military. I’m not saying that being in the military is bad. I’m just saying that the training you get in the military is different than what a cop should get. The whole “The Enemy” thing that is drilled into your head. And I don’t think police do a good job at changing the way you view people.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

What did the reporter do incorrectly here to warrant being arrested?

lol wtf

[Morkle]

Yeah, I'm not pro-looting...at all...that said, what's the plan? What does the olive branch look like on a more broad level than this cop being brought to justice...? I legitimately do not have a plan in my head, so I'd be curious to know what some yous think...

It has to start at the police level with better trainings, more crack down on misconduct when they are small, maybe some policy changes (although I'm not sure what that looks like personally). A decrease in the amount of war equipment given to police departments.

Just my opinion, but none of this is going to happen. Underfunded as a whole, understaffed, and you're just never going to police every incident the police get themselves into.

[MR25]

Yeah, I'm not pro-looting...at all...that said, what's the plan? What does the olive branch look like on a more broad level than this cop being brought to justice...? I legitimately do not have a plan in my head, so I'd be curious to know what some yous think...

It has to start at the police level with better trainings, more crack down on misconduct when they are small, maybe some policy changes (although I'm not sure what that looks like personally). A decrease in the amount of war equipment given to police departments.

Just my opinion, but none of this is going to happen. Underfunded as a whole, understaffed, and you're just never going to police every incident the police get themselves into.

Something has to give, though. Mandatory body cams was a start but they had the ability to turn them off and hide them. And given this particular instance and others, having people video the cops doesn't seem to phase them.

There's an ingrained lack of accountability for police officers, and I think it's going to have to take a federal response to have things change in any meaningful way. Problem is, the fed gov doesn't seem too keen on regulating local PDs (and I understand that there are challenges in that).

But we can't keep just saying "that will never happen because (understaffed, underfunded, etc)" because that just perpetuates the issues we have now.

[Morkle]

I'm not disagreeing with anything of what you said, but you've had this happen on the watch of both parties - and neither has really done enough to help completely on either side.

It's a brutally ugly system, I don't know how you even get past it - but on top of that, you've got unions in place willing to protect police officers from their wrongdoings.

[King Colby]

Agree with both of you on all of this. Something needs to happen, but its not easy.

And I dont think burning down a precinct is helping either.

[CBear3]

Here's the thing about "I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to break **** and steal things:"

Between Castile and Floyd, if you're a black person in Minneapolis you would have every right to think that any encounter with the police could turn deadly. Society is piling on the ways that systemic racism has the world stacked against you. Voting for changes hasn't helped, peacefully protesting hasn't helped, and frankly in both cases there's segments of the population that flat out mock those efforts.

So yeah, if society is going to keep holding me down, why should I watch out for my "neighbor." I'm going to get mine, because society keeps reinforcing that my life doesn't have the same value and they can take it with impunity.

I don't agree with it. I'm more of an aspiring pacifist. But I can empathize with the mindset. I don't think looting and violence is to send a message for change, I think it's saying "If the world is going to eff me, then eff the world." And you don't have to agree with that world view, but I don't think you can understand the situation or try to improve it without recognizing that those feelings exist and are a rational reaction.

[Morkle]

No, and part of the problem there is that you've got people pro-cops, and when they see this happening, it solidifies the reasoning as to why things like killings happen.

Especially when the mantra is "WELL WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 40 MINUTES BEFORE THE CELL PHONE RAN." Ultimately it doesn't matter, as no cop should be executioner by choice in the way this guy was.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Here is my solution:
All investigations of serious criminal activity by the police are investigated by the FBI, not by the local FBI since they interact too closely with the local police, but a special unit that operates nationally.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I don’t think it’s fair to 100% fault police officers. They’re certainly at fault a lot of times and especially in this particular incident (as well as the Breanna Taylor incident) but I doubt being a police is particularly easy; I wonder what percent of arrests or confrontations involve the suspect carrying a weapon

Like all conflicts, one side is rarely 100% at fault. Completely blaming police is unconstructive and unhelpful. This is a two way street.

[Morkle]

Here is my solution:
All investigations of serious criminal activity by the police are investigated by the FBI, not by the local FBI since they interact to closely with the local police, but a special unit that operates nationally.

I actually think this could be a great start, no police unit should be able to investigate themselves after something like this happens. It should be a third party system, and if they recommend charges, they have to happen.

[AuthorTony]

The problem begins with a certain subset of people who want to be cops. They're high school bullies who want to have free reign to dominate others as grown ups. You give those types guns, badges, and arm them like they're going to take down bin Laden and it just feeds into their macho, I'm better than everyone else, attitude. I know it's easier said than done, but if there were a way to weed those people out, either via psychological testing, deep dives into their personal lives, etc. before they become cops, it would go a long way toward helping the problem of overly aggressive cops.

And I know I've beaten this drum before, but shooting dogs should lead to cops losing their jobs. You have cops who make a game of killing animals, cops shooting chihuahuas for nipping their heels, cops shooting dogs behind fences. Any cop who discharges his or her firearm in a situation like that should be fired immediately because if they can kill an animal which is no threat to them, they can most certainly maim/kill a human being. A police officer discharging a firearm should be an absolute last resort and the fact that many of them do so wantonly shows they don't take the responsibilities of their job seriously. If a cop shoots their gun for any reason, there should be an investigation as to whether they're fit to stay on the force. There should be a zero tolerance policy for anyone who had fired their weapon in a non life threatening situation.

[obhave]

I'm not disagreeing with anything of what you said, but you've had this happen on the watch of both parties - and neither has really done enough to help completely on either side.

It's a brutally ugly system, I don't know how you even get past it - but on top of that, you've got unions in place willing to protect police officers from their wrongdoings.

And this is why the protests are still happening. Yes some take advantage to do harmful things. Yes, some people are so frustrated that they resort to anger. But this is why Black Live Matter is still a movement. Because if the attitude is always that things can't get better or cops are untouchable (by policy, public opinions, police union, court system, etc.) That needs to be addressed. If the public is so easy swayed to not care about police violence because of the protests, it's a problem. People have fickle minds and that causes these cycles.

The videos of protestors trying to prevent violence, trying to hold on to the peaceful nature it started as should be recognized. And if there were undercover cops inciting violence, knowing that if they started it riots would come, they knew that would distract people from the original ugliness of what they and their fellow cops did.

[grunthy]

Here's the thing about "I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to break **** and steal things:"

Between Castile and Floyd, if you're a black person in Minneapolis you would have every right to think that any encounter with the police could turn deadly. Society is piling on the ways that systemic racism has the world stacked against you. Voting for changes hasn't helped, peacefully protesting hasn't helped, and frankly in both cases there's segments of the population that flat out mock those efforts.

So yeah, if society is going to keep holding me down, why should I watch out for my "neighbor." I'm going to get mine, because society keeps reinforcing that my life doesn't have the same value and they can take it with impunity.

I don't agree with it. I'm more of an aspiring pacifist. But I can empathize with the mindset. I don't think looting and violence is to send a message for change, I think it's saying "If the world is going to eff me, then eff the world." And you don't have to agree with that world view, but I don't think you can understand the situation or try to improve it without recognizing that those feelings exist and are a rational reaction.

Rational reactions don’t consist of hurting your fellow citizens and/or their livelihoods.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I think part of the issue here is thinking that the federales are somehow above all the same nonsense as the local police.

It'd be like Kodiak bears overseeing the instruction of gray wolves.

[mikey]

I think it would be tough to come to the podium and say, "Ok...we're gonna do more training." Ya know? I'm not saying that idea is right, wrong, or indifferent. But I just can't imagine that's gonna be enough to justify all of what's happening wrong and right...

And I'm in that tough spot where I'm saying, "this isn't the answer, but I don't have a solution either" and I hate that spot...but even right now, can you really de-militarize police when they're dealing with a full-on riot...? The optics and practicality of that won't be great...

Does every police department (precinct?) have an ombudsman...? Is there a realistic oversight besides the normal legal system...?

[NAN]

Considering the focus of the vast majority of people across the country shifted from "these 4 dadhole cops need to burn" to "look at these dadholes burning innocent people's livelihoods and stealing bedding from target", this reaction is going to cause more division rather than affect change.

It does every single time it happens. I'm sympathetic towards the person that was killed, but this type of stuff just turns me off instantly, when someone gives the greenlight to get back at the world by destroying someone else's livelihood in the name of "protest."

I was actually shocked there were some responses earlier in the thread that actually was ok with this.

[NAN]

I don’t think it’s fair to 100% fault police officers. They’re certainly at fault a lot of times and especially in this particular incident (as well as the Breanna Taylor incident) but I doubt being a police is particularly easy; I wonder what percent of arrests or confrontations involve the suspect carrying a weapon

Like all conflicts, one side is rarely 100% at fault. Completely blaming police is unconstructive and unhelpful. This is a two way street.

My feelings as well. Amen.

[mikey]

The problem begins with a certain subset of people who want to be cops. They're high school bullies who want to have free reign to dominate others as grown ups. You give those types guns, badges, and arm them like they're going to take down bin Laden and it just feeds into their macho, I'm better than everyone else, attitude. I know it's easier said than done, but if there were a way to weed those people out, either via psychological testing, deep dives into their personal lives, etc. before they become cops, it would go a long way toward helping the problem of overly aggressive cops.

As usual, and this is no exception, I care much less about these types of ideas for this specific instance, but care much more about the slippery slope and what it causes...your idea is: why don't we profile?

And, again, I'm listening to that idea...but where does it go? We "normally" elected Trump...profile voters? We have people that **** around with kids as teachers...can we profile for that? Is it just police? Does it extend to security guards, bouncers? Do we risk putting out a bunch of puss-cakes that can't handle an intense situation and think clearly as a result...?

Way down the line, you run the risk of having the Futurama-style job chip based on your genetic makeup...where a job is picked for you based on your brain ability...that's a long way to go for this I know, but if your solution works...

[Viva la Ben]

When the looting starts the shooting starts amirite?

[CBear3]

Here's the thing about "I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to break **** and steal things:"

Between Castile and Floyd, if you're a black person in Minneapolis you would have every right to think that any encounter with the police could turn deadly. Society is piling on the ways that systemic racism has the world stacked against you. Voting for changes hasn't helped, peacefully protesting hasn't helped, and frankly in both cases there's segments of the population that flat out mock those efforts.

So yeah, if society is going to keep holding me down, why should I watch out for my "neighbor." I'm going to get mine, because society keeps reinforcing that my life doesn't have the same value and they can take it with impunity.

I don't agree with it. I'm more of an aspiring pacifist. But I can empathize with the mindset. I don't think looting and violence is to send a message for change, I think it's saying "If the world is going to eff me, then eff the world." And you don't have to agree with that world view, but I don't think you can understand the situation or try to improve it without recognizing that those feelings exist and are a rational reaction.

Rational reactions don’t consist of hurting your fellow citizens and/or their livelihoods.

The feelings are a rational reaction.

And there's all this talk about uprooting the tyranny of the government and the need for the 2nd Amendment to protect you. Isn't that what we're watching? You have the state placing your life as less than somebody else's. You don't have the same right to life and liberty that those of the state do. So isn't this that rebellion?

[Lelldorin]

Here's the thing about "I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to break **** and steal things:"

Between Castile and Floyd, if you're a black person in Minneapolis you would have every right to think that any encounter with the police could turn deadly. Society is piling on the ways that systemic racism has the world stacked against you. Voting for changes hasn't helped, peacefully protesting hasn't helped, and frankly in both cases there's segments of the population that flat out mock those efforts.

So yeah, if society is going to keep holding me down, why should I watch out for my "neighbor." I'm going to get mine, because society keeps reinforcing that my life doesn't have the same value and they can take it with impunity.

I don't agree with it. I'm more of an aspiring pacifist. But I can empathize with the mindset. I don't think looting and violence is to send a message for change, I think it's saying "If the world is going to eff me, then eff the world." And you don't have to agree with that world view, but I don't think you can understand the situation or try to improve it without recognizing that those feelings exist and are a rational reaction.

I think I get what you are writing, but I am not sure about the bolded part.

In Sweden, I think we have a destructive cycle. Some people in bad neighborhoods are burning cars and then attacking (e.g. throwing rocks) policemen and firefighters when they appear. When asked why, they say that they are upset with their situation and that the police does not treat them with respect.
I wonder if there is a correlation between you throwing rocks at the police has anything to do with that you are not treated with respect? And you would have to be a saint and/or perhaps a bit naive as a policeman to not be careful with suspects when you are outnumbered in neighborhoods where you are not welcomed...