Politics And Current Events

Troy Loney
Posts: 27618
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:01 am

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/1 ... -survival/

Maddow talked about this article last night, written after Trump won in 2016.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed. The capture of institutions in Turkey has been carried out even faster, by a man once celebrated as the democrat to lead Turkey into the EU. Poland has in less than a year undone half of a quarter century’s accomplishments in building a constitutional democracy.

Of course, the United States has much stronger institutions than Germany did in the 1930s, or Russia does today. Both Clinton and Obama in their speeches stressed the importance and strength of these institutions. The problem, however, is that many of these institutions are enshrined in political culture rather than in law, and all of them—including the ones enshrined in law—depend on the good faith of all actors to fulfill their purpose and uphold the Constitution.
Trump isn't some unique figure, this is how the **** works.

Gaucho
Posts: 50033
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:31 pm
Location: shootzepucklefraude

Politics And Current Events

Postby Gaucho » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:10 am


NailedPenguin
Posts: 7629
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: The biggest post, in the biggest thread, in the biggest forum in town. Wooooo!

Politics And Current Events

Postby NailedPenguin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:32 am

Here's another 1930's Germany comparison. Rachel Maddow talked about it so its super serious. Also you're all a brainwashed cult that just thinks whatever faux noooz tells you to.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:38 am

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/1 ... -survival/

Maddow talked about this article last night, written after Trump won in 2016.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed. The capture of institutions in Turkey has been carried out even faster, by a man once celebrated as the democrat to lead Turkey into the EU. Poland has in less than a year undone half of a quarter century’s accomplishments in building a constitutional democracy.

Of course, the United States has much stronger institutions than Germany did in the 1930s, or Russia does today. Both Clinton and Obama in their speeches stressed the importance and strength of these institutions. The problem, however, is that many of these institutions are enshrined in political culture rather than in law, and all of them—including the ones enshrined in law—depend on the good faith of all actors to fulfill their purpose and uphold the Constitution.
Trump isn't some unique figure, this is how the **** works.
The comparisons between Russia, USA, and Nazi Germany end at they are all countries. The governments are so vastly different that it is absurd to even believe what is happening now will turn us into anything that resembles either of those other countries.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27618
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:42 am

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Consider the financial markets this week, which, having tanked overnight, rebounded following the Clinton and Obama speeches. Confronted with political volatility, the markets become suckers for calming rhetoric from authority figures. So do people. Panic can be neutralized by falsely reassuring words about how the world as we know it has not ended. It is a fact that the world did not end on November 8 nor at any previous time in history. Yet history has seen many catastrophes, and most of them unfolded over time. That time included periods of relative calm. One of my favorite thinkers, the Jewish historian Simon Dubnow, breathed a sigh of relief in early October 1939: he had moved from Berlin to Latvia, and he wrote to his friends that he was certain that the tiny country wedged between two tyrannies would retain its sovereignty and Dubnow himself would be safe. Shortly after that, Latvia was occupied by the Soviets, then by the Germans, then by the Soviets again—but by that time Dubnow had been killed. Dubnow was well aware that he was living through a catastrophic period in history—it’s just that he thought he had managed to find a pocket of normality within it.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:49 am

Even comparing this election/presidency or mentioning it while talking about Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is disrespectful to those that suffered horrifically during that time.

Troy Loney
Posts: 27618
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:51 am

Oh cool, we're talking platitudes. I have one, those that do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

count2infinity
Posts: 35732
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:06 pm
Location: All things must pass. With six you get eggroll. No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.
Contact:

Politics And Current Events

Postby count2infinity » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 am

Platitude might be one of the coolest words in the english language... it just rolls of the tongue so nicely.

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:56 am

Those that distort history or misrepresent the present to serve their narrative cause division and complacency. Eventually no one will hear your cries about a wolf when there actually is one.

eddy
Posts: 22351
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:49 am
Location: Emmet's barn loft

Politics And Current Events

Postby eddy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 am

now now children


MWB
Posts: 8213
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby MWB » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:04 am

Even comparing this election/presidency or mentioning it while talking about Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is disrespectful to those that suffered horrifically during that time.
So there is nothing to be concerned about? If there is, what level should we be concerned?

faftorial
Posts: 14912
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm
Location: Lengeschder

Politics And Current Events

Postby faftorial » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:05 am

I know Freddy mentioned this the other day, but the turnout for Trump in the New Hampshire primary is crazy. Obviously the incumbent primary usually is forgotten, but this is definitely noteworthy:

Image

That many voters turning out to vote for the incumbent that is already a lock to win the primary is damned impressive. Clinton held the previous record.
I’m not sure why that’s surprising though.
Me too. I think you want to compare turnout in the GOP primary for Trump to other recent incumbents. Obama, Bush, Clinton...

faftorial
Posts: 14912
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm
Location: Lengeschder

Politics And Current Events

Postby faftorial » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:07 am

Here's another 1930's Germany comparison. Rachel Maddow talked about it so its super serious. Also you're all a brainwashed cult that just thinks whatever faux noooz tells you to.
:fist:

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:12 am

Even comparing this election/presidency or mentioning it while talking about Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is disrespectful to those that suffered horrifically during that time.
So there is nothing to be concerned about? If there is, what level should we be concerned?
On a scale of 1-10 of concern about our country turning into one of those other countries or similar... a 1.

Concern that we will elect another idiot... a 10.

Beveridge
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:17 pm
Location: 8-8-1

Politics And Current Events

Postby Beveridge » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:17 am

TL posted that to get a chain reaction going, right? TL didn't post that because he is serious, right?

Troy Loney
Posts: 27618
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby Troy Loney » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:31 am

TL posted that to get a chain reaction going, right? TL didn't post that because he is serious, right?
I think people should be concerned about the DOJ's political subservience. I am curious to see if the retorts to "TDS" have changed.

They have not, same mindless drivel.

MWB
Posts: 8213
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby MWB » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:36 am

Even comparing this election/presidency or mentioning it while talking about Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is disrespectful to those that suffered horrifically during that time.
So there is nothing to be concerned about? If there is, what level should we be concerned?
On a scale of 1-10 of concern about our country turning into one of those other countries or similar... a 1.

Concern that we will elect another idiot... a 10.
I’m not sure why you take it to extremes. Drawing comparisons does not mean a will become b. So let me ask a more specific question: what is your level of concern in the direction of the country based on the actions of trump?

CBear3
Posts: 7694
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:02 pm
Location: KC, MO

Politics And Current Events

Postby CBear3 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:45 am

Right, on a scale of of idyllic US Representative Democracy (1) to Nazi Germany (10) where do you think things are today?
US - 3 (It might have been a 2 or 2.5 before Trump)
China - 7 (mostly state run authoratarian, internet censorship, genocide)
Russia - 8 (Oligarch run under the guise of freedom, murders dissidents, etc.)
PA Liquor Control Board - 9.5 :slug:

slappybrown
Posts: 16580
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:19 pm
Location: Lifelong Alabama Football Fan

Politics And Current Events

Postby slappybrown » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:48 am

I know Freddy mentioned this the other day, but the turnout for Trump in the New Hampshire primary is crazy. Obviously the incumbent primary usually is forgotten, but this is definitely noteworthy:

Image

That many voters turning out to vote for the incumbent that is already a lock to win the primary is damned impressive. Clinton held the previous record.
I’m not sure why that’s surprising though.
Me too. I think you want to compare turnout in the GOP primary for Trump to other recent incumbents. Obama, Bush, Clinton...
Isn't that what the graphic is doing?

faftorial
Posts: 14912
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:35 pm
Location: Lengeschder

Politics And Current Events

Postby faftorial » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:55 am

I know Freddy mentioned this the other day, but the turnout for Trump in the New Hampshire primary is crazy. Obviously the incumbent primary usually is forgotten, but this is definitely noteworthy:

Image

That many voters turning out to vote for the incumbent that is already a lock to win the primary is damned impressive. Clinton held the previous record.
I’m not sure why that’s surprising though.
Me too. I think you want to compare turnout in the GOP primary for Trump to other recent incumbents. Obama, Bush, Clinton...
Isn't that what the graphic is doing?

You are right, :face:

grunthy
Posts: 18239
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:29 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby grunthy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:08 am

Even comparing this election/presidency or mentioning it while talking about Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is disrespectful to those that suffered horrifically during that time.
So there is nothing to be concerned about? If there is, what level should we be concerned?
On a scale of 1-10 of concern about our country turning into one of those other countries or similar... a 1.

Concern that we will elect another idiot... a 10.
I’m not sure why you take it to extremes. Drawing comparisons does not mean a will become b. So let me ask a more specific question: what is your level of concern in the direction of the country based on the actions of trump?
6. My concerns with Obama were a 5. My concerns are driven on the direction of political division, not that we are going to an authoritarian country.

Beveridge
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:17 pm
Location: 8-8-1

Politics And Current Events

Postby Beveridge » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:10 am

My concerns are driven on the direction of political division
This right here. Until BOTH sides get this, nothing will change and probably get worse.

Lemon Berry Lobster
Posts: 15443
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 3:13 pm
Location: dodint is a millennial

Politics And Current Events

Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:31 am

Right, on a scale of of idyllic US Representative Democracy (1) to Nazi Germany (10) where do you think things are today?
US - 3 (It might have been a 2 or 2.5 before Trump)
China - 7 (mostly state run authoratarian, internet censorship, genocide)
Russia - 8 (Oligarch run under the guise of freedom, murders dissidents, etc.)
PA Liquor Control Board - 9.5 :slug:
Nazi Germany is more of a 9.99999999999 to me...

Oh and the NCAA is an 11.

MWB
Posts: 8213
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 pm

Politics And Current Events

Postby MWB » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:33 am

I agree the division is a huge problem. I think the division problem leads to more of the problems we are seeing with trump, which is why i think authoritarianism is also more and more of a problem. One side would rather get the “win” than do the right thing.

NailedPenguin
Posts: 7629
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:32 pm
Location: The biggest post, in the biggest thread, in the biggest forum in town. Wooooo!

Politics And Current Events

Postby NailedPenguin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:43 am

TL posted that to get a chain reaction going, right? TL didn't post that because he is serious, right?
I think people should be concerned about the DOJ's political subservience. I am curious to see if the retorts to "TDS" have changed.

They have not, same mindless drivel.
Let's get back to the days when the AG is the self proclaimed President's wingman. But I'm sure thats different just 'cuz.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: King Colby, skullman80 and 76 guests