Politics And Current Events

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:36 am

I have about 40 mins left in the speech. I always loved how it’s an applause gallery on one side and not on the other based on which party the president is in. IMO it’s one of those things that’s just tongue in cheek at this point.

So far though if you take out the applause and glad handing, this speech (and any state of the union) might be 15 mins long. I would prefer a transcript be put online immediately after to cut out the pomp and circumstance.

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:37 am


MWB
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Postby MWB » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:38 am

How about just don’t do it anymore. It’s basically a campaign speech for a president running again or victory lap if not.

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Postby Beveridge » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:41 am

I have about 40 mins left in the speech. I always loved how it’s an applause gallery on one side and not on the other based on which party the president is in. IMO it’s one of those things that’s just tongue in cheek at this point.

So far though if you take out the applause and glad handing, this speech (and any state of the union) might be 15 mins long. I would prefer a transcript be put online immediately after to cut out the pomp and circumstance.
I remember that in my American History class we had to do a report on the SOTU address (Clinton's final one) and I think I got to 40 stand ovations before I stopped counting. It was dumb. And it was the one side and not the other as you pointed out. Also dumb.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:49 am

How about just don’t do it anymore. It’s basically a campaign speech for a president running again or victory lap if not.
We didn't do it for a long time until the Fascist and by far the worst President ever, Woodrow Wilson, decided that instead of just sending a letter, as Washington had done, he would give a Beer Hall Putsch speech to Congress in 1913.

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Postby count2infinity » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:53 am

Beer Hall Putsch is such a great name for such a terrible thing... it's unfortunate really.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:16 am

TIL I learned that Glenn Beck and Paul Ryan routinely dodint about Woodrow Wilson, lol.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:16 am

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ism-213388

Clearly racist, but was progressive. The latter being the actual problem.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:24 am

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ism-213388

Clearly racist, but was progressive. The latter being the actual problem.
Saying Woodrow Wilson's "actual problem" was his "progressivism" is like saying the biggest issue with cancer is that your hair falls out.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:42 am


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Postby Nuge » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:30 pm

3 SOTU Thoughts:

1. Why do the VP and Speaker even need copies of the speech? Why can't they just listen to it like every other member of Congress?

2. Can we end the "special guests"? Every person that gets introduced just drags the whole thing out longer than it needs to be.

3. How refreshing would it be to hear a President start their speech by telling Congress to stay seated and hold applause until the end? Maybe just inform everyone how we're doing and what we need to improve and end the speech in about 20 minutes.
Last edited by Nuge on Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby skullman80 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:30 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.

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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:31 pm


tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:36 pm

How about just don’t do it anymore. It’s basically a campaign speech for a president running again or victory lap if not.
We didn't do it for a long time until the Fascist and by far the worst President ever, Woodrow Wilson, decided that instead of just sending a letter, as Washington had done, he would give a Beer Hall Putsch speech to Congress in 1913.
It was Jefferson who began the letter-only campaign (Washington and Adams both delivered their letters-as-addresses in person), and there have been fewer than 200 in-person speeches. But yes I agree and think it would be better if they skipped the theatrics altogether. But in the age of live TV, I don't think that's ever likely to be a thing again.

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Postby Morkle » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:36 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.
imo the best course was to drag it out and get the subpeonas dragged in court. They thought it'd make an impact in the news, but then you have people who didn't even know Mayor Pete was gay, getting upset because they voted for him, and he was gay.

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Postby tifosi77 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:43 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.
It's all contextual imo. I don't think they ever pursued this with the intent of changing hearts and minds in the Senate, but if getting this information out into the public sphere can influence voters... and we can argue the merits of that - impeachment as electoral politics - from now until November.

Clinton had 10 Republicans vote to acquit on one of his articles, and I think 4 or 5 on the other. And that impeachment was initiated and voted on during the lame duck session of 1998, and the trial taking place at the outset of the incoming Congress in 1999.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:44 pm

Doug Jones did the politically smart thing. He's going to lose in November no matter what as the GOP is not going to run a child molester this time.

Voting to convict at least gives him a plausible line to the political analyst grifter game.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:47 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.
imo the best course was to drag it out and get the subpeonas dragged in court. They thought it'd make an impact in the news, but then you have people who didn't even know Mayor Pete was gay, getting upset because they voted for him, and he was gay.
I think that the House was afraid what would happen if this intra-branch fight went to the SCOTUS. What if this group of partisan justices ruled that congress doesn't have the authority to compel documents and testimony from the executive branch? Could have basically removed any oversight powers. As Shyster has pointed out, that is not something defined in the constitution or anything, the convenient orginalists could have used that to justify siding with the admin.

The long term view here is, I assume, that this will be the last time the country elects a transparently corrupt executive who's borderline actions in varying arenas requires them to conceal everything they can.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:48 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.
It's all contextual imo. I don't think they ever pursued this with the intent of changing hearts and minds in the Senate, but if getting this information out into the public sphere can influence voters... and we can argue the merits of that - impeachment as electoral politics - from now until November.

Clinton had 10 Republicans vote to acquit on one of his articles, and I think 4 or 5 on the other. And that impeachment was initiated and voted on during the lame duck session of 1998, and the trial taking place at the outset of the incoming Congress in 1999.
Public opinion was also like 70%+ against impeachment. With Trump it's 50/50.

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Postby Morkle » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:54 pm

So obviously Trump is getting acquitted. It seems no republicans at all are crossing lines. It seems though a few democrats may vote to acquit. If that happens does that just make them look like fools at this point. Not only did you not sway anyone (which was unlikely), but a few people in your own party actually voted to acquit.
imo the best course was to drag it out and get the subpeonas dragged in court. They thought it'd make an impact in the news, but then you have people who didn't even know Mayor Pete was gay, getting upset because they voted for him, and he was gay.
I think that the House was afraid what would happen if this intra-branch fight went to the SCOTUS. What if this group of partisan justices ruled that congress doesn't have the authority to compel documents and testimony from the executive branch? Could have basically removed any oversight powers. As Shyster has pointed out, that is not something defined in the constitution or anything, the convenient orginalists could have used that to justify siding with the admin.

The long term view here is, I assume, that this will be the last time the country elects a transparently corrupt executive who's borderline actions in varying arenas requires them to conceal everything they can.
In regards to the last thought, I think you're underestimating general population.

To the first part - that's being decided anyways when it comes to the tax cases. They're a few major decisions away from allowing sitting presidents to hide their tax returns, and Trump's DOJ argued that asking for them is nothing more than presidential harassment and it's unconstitutional at the state and executive level. There's a very real possibility that they side with Trump, and then the corruption doors are completely gone and off the hinges at that point.

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Postby Troy Loney » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:59 pm


To the first part - that's being decided anyways when it comes to the tax cases. They're a few major decisions away from allowing sitting presidents to hide their tax returns, and Trump's DOJ argued that asking for them is nothing more than presidential harassment and it's unconstitutional at the state and executive level. There's a very real possibility that they side with Trump, and then the corruption doors are completely gone and off the hinges at that point.
That's different from the tax returns, I believe they are requesting information prior to him becoming president. Taking the impeachment subpoenas to the supreme court could challenge the authority of congress to compel any executive agency to adhere to legislative oversight.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:59 pm

Beer Hall Putsch is such a great name for such a terrible thing... it's unfortunate really.
Kind of like "Rage Against the Machine" :pop:

Pavel Bure
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Postby Pavel Bure » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:15 pm

Just saw Wendy Bell pandering to her lowest common denominator. Yikes.

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Postby mac5155 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:22 pm


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Postby Trip McNeely » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:30 pm

Just saw Wendy Bell pandering to her lowest common denominator. Yikes.
She is cray. Everywhere she goes, trouble follows

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