Politics And Current Events

[tifosi77]

That's my understanding. As a foreign policy function the executive power is pretty much unchecked in that area.

Yeah, that is certainly not in dispute. But this is the whole thing with firing Comey as well. So again, it goes to the whole corrupt intent. In this case, he was firing the ambassador as part of the deal with these ukrainian officials. In return for ousting the ambassador, they would make allegations against Biden. Most prominently, the Ukraine prosecutor at the heart of the whole Biden thing, Shokin. He was going to allege that he was pushed out by BIden because he was investigating Burisma.

That's not right, tho, is it? Yovanovitch was not ousted as part of a deal with 'Ukranian officials', it was entirely insular to the Trump campaign and Giuliani. Shokin had been out of office for months before Yovanovitch was even appointed (in the later months of the Obama administration), and by the time she was fired by Trump Shokin had been out of the picture for like three years.

The thing here is not 'the president has thus and such authority'. It is 'why is the president bypassing his actual Constitutional authority and the official channels of governmental power and giving the order to his two-bit pseudo-thugs “Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it.”' He could've just had Pompeo issue an order to 'recall Yovanovitch from Ukraine'. But instead there's all this other mess going on, suggestions of a sitting ambassador being surveilled, and then she's being told to vacate the country 'on the next flight out' because of a perceived threat.

If you watch that Parnas interview, he says that one of the conditions Shokin made for providing that statement about Biden was her removal. Parnas also outlined that Trump ordered her removal multiple times to both Tillerson and Pompeo, who ignored the directive (common thread in this admin).

I thought Lutsenko was the one sort of urging her ouster.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Trump should be impeached for Ukraine.

Bush should have been impeached for Iraq.

I'm sorry some folks can't handle those two things at the same time.

[grunthy]

Also, narrowing the focus to subjective things like "dead people are 'better' than bribery" is sort of looking at one knot on a tree in the middle of a forest fire and debating whether it looks more like a profile of Alfred Hitchcock or an omelet.

It's not about one thing being better or worse on the same scale, it's about one being a legitimate use of the power of the office of the presidency and the other not being. We can - and did - debate the value of the former in the case of Iraq, and its wisdom as a policy course of action. The latter is the very definition of corruption. And I cannot imagine the depths of outrage and hate-tweet posting we would be subjected to ITT by Freddy and grunts if Obama stood accused of this sort of thing.

I’d be the same.

[Troy Loney]

Bush should have been impeached too. This is galaxy brain **** to argue about Bush's antics with regards to Trump.

[grunthy]

Also, narrowing the focus to subjective things like "dead people are 'better' than bribery" is sort of looking at one knot on a tree in the middle of a forest fire and debating whether it looks more like a profile of Alfred Hitchcock or an omelet.

It's not about one thing being better or worse on the same scale, it's about one being a legitimate use of the power of the office of the presidency and the other not being. We can - and did - debate the value of the former in the case of Iraq, and its wisdom as a policy course of action. The latter is the very definition of corruption. And I cannot imagine the depths of outrage and hate-tweet posting we would be subjected to ITT by Freddy and grunts if Obama stood accused of this sort of thing.

What an awful analogy. It’s like you learned how to deflect from Sean Hannity with outrageous garbage and trying to be witty.

[Morkle]

Trump should be impeached for Ukraine.

Bush should have been impeached for Iraq.

I'm sorry some folks can't handle those two things at the same time.

lmao, if that's your take, where everyone actually agrees. This makes sense. But we're not talking about that, because you two have gone to "severity" of the two over this.

That's been the discussion based on the last few pages.

[count2infinity]

[grunthy]

Trump should be impeached for Ukraine.

Bush should have been impeached for Iraq.

I'm sorry some folks can't handle those two things at the same time.

lmao, if that's your take, where everyone actually agrees. This makes sense. But we're not talking about that, because you two have gone to "severity" of the two over this.

That's been the discussion based on the last few pages.

Actually it’s possible to have both those discussions at the same time. Some people can’t multitask.

[grunthy]

You guys talk about having TDS Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than any conservative in here.

[count2infinity]

You guys talk about having TDS Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than any conservative in here.

No.

[Troy Loney]

I thought Lutsenko was the one sort of urging her ouster.

They both were, one thing they were trying to do was get a visa for Shokin to come and "debrief" Graham about the Bidens. In that interview, Parnas said one of the conditions for Shokin, was the removal of the ambassador.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Trump should be impeached for Ukraine.

Bush should have been impeached for Iraq.

I'm sorry some folks can't handle those two things at the same time.

lmao, if that's your take, where everyone actually agrees. This makes sense. But we're not talking about that, because you two have gone to "severity" of the two over this.

That's been the discussion based on the last few pages.

The point is people care about Trump because he's Trump.

There was never any serious impeachment for Bush, because he's Bush.

Yet which was worse and had a far worse outcome?

[Troy Loney]

Trump should be impeached for Ukraine.

Bush should have been impeached for Iraq.

I'm sorry some folks can't handle those two things at the same time.

lmao, if that's your take, where everyone actually agrees. This makes sense. But we're not talking about that, because you two have gone to "severity" of the two over this.

That's been the discussion based on the last few pages.

The best part of all this to me, is that liberal hatred of bush has been cited as reason for dismissing criticisms of Trump as being simply tribal.

[Morkle]

I feel like it's always agonizingly hard to have a discussion about anything because whataboutism ruins it.

What Trump has done, could be analyzed on it's own merit, and not have to be looped in to other acts worthy of impeachment.

[grunthy]

You guys talk about having TDS Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than any conservative in here.

No.

Yes

[count2infinity]

Glad we sorted that out.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I feel like it's always agonizingly hard to have a discussion about anything because whataboutism ruins it.

What Trump has done, could be analyzed on it's own merit, and not have to be looped in to other acts worthy of impeachment.

Meh.

Whatever "respectable" politician that comes after Trump will get involved in some foreign war with specious arguments, but he'll be less gauche on Twitter so no one will care if he/she profits from it in some way.

Trump's completely unfit for office and should be impeached.

[Morkle]

I feel like it's always agonizingly hard to have a discussion about anything because whataboutism ruins it.

What Trump has done, could be analyzed on it's own merit, and not have to be looped in to other acts worthy of impeachment.

Meh.

Whatever "respectable" politician that comes after Trump will get involved in some foreign war with specious arguments, but he'll be less gauche on Twitter so no one will care if he/she profits from it in some way.

Trump's completely unfit for office and should be impeached.

But what about everyone else?!?!? Who cares? I hope they get caught, I hope they're punished in the same way, and I hope justice prevails.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I'll hold my breath when it happens.

[Morkle]

I will too, but ignoring one potential crime because others may or may not get caught isn't acceptable, imo.

[Freddy Rumsen]

No is ignoring Trump itt.

[CBear3]

The reason Bush wasn't impeached was political. It looks soft on terrorism to go after him for it, and plays right into the stereotype of Democrats being weak against aggressors.

The reason Obama wasn't impeached over drone strikes is the same reason we're not impeaching Trump over Soleimani. Their acts made in an attempt to make the country more secure. You can argue if that's the case, or if its worth the "collateral damage," but those actions aren't about the person or office, it's about the country. If the Republican platform in 2012 wasn't as far right socially, I would have voted for Romney. I had to be talked out of it or a third party multiple times over the drone strikes.

[willeyeam]

Like is this real?

That's how I react to most of his posts here

[bhflyhigh]

Also, narrowing the focus to subjective things like "dead people are 'better' than bribery" is sort of looking at one knot on a tree in the middle of a forest fire and debating whether it looks more like a profile of Alfred Hitchcock or an omelet.

It's not about one thing being better or worse on the same scale, it's about one being a legitimate use of the power of the office of the presidency and the other not being. We can - and did - debate the value of the former in the case of Iraq, and its wisdom as a policy course of action. The latter is the very definition of corruption. And I cannot imagine the depths of outrage and hate-tweet posting we would be subjected to ITT by Freddy and grunts if Obama stood accused of this sort of thing.

It boggles my mind. I am still a registered Republican. I do not approve of what Trump did. I just don't see how other Republicans are ok with it. I feel these "things" probably happen more than we'd all like to imagine... but the guy got caught red handed. We can't pretend like everything is ok because he's on "our" team. He needs to go.

[Kaiser]

Couldn't they get anyone better than Sylvia Garcia? Take a shot every time she pronounces a word the way a three year old would.