Politics And Current Events

[grunthy]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4874420/

Apparently wildfire acreage burning is down worldwide over the last couple of decades.

[Willie Kool]

Nuclear power is bad though...

The blackouts have nothing to do with how the power is generated...

[Freddy Rumsen]

It's all about PGE CYA'ing.

[Freddy Rumsen]

[Gaucho]

wut

[Gaucho]

Well, I'm not visiting Kentucky anytime soon.

[shafnutz05]

Pretty interesting/informative read on Columbus. I was not aware as to how Columbus Day came about, and I also wasn't aware that Indigneous Peoples already get both their own day and month. The author makes a pretty good case against all of the virulent nonsensical hatred against Columbus specifically. @slappybrown

The second reason is that on March 14, 1891, Italian Americans hit a low point in the long, arduous hazing period that every immigrant group seems condemned to suffer before emerging into the status of respectable American-hood. That year, an angry New Orleans mob lynched 11 Italian immigrants after they were cleared of murder charges. Perhaps the largest lynching in US history, it was condoned by the New York Times and a future president, Teddy Roosevelt.

Italian Americans desperately needed a hero to stand for them, someone to symbolize their contributions to their adopted land. The following year, Italian Americans in New York City erected a statue to Columbus at what became ­Columbus Circle and inscribed it, “To the world, he gave a world.”

https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/stop-scap ... -columbus/

[count2infinity]

If I don't get the day off, it's not a real holiday. F*ck Columbus and Indigenous people (although, Columbus already handled that part for me...)

[grunthy]

Well, I'm not visiting Kentucky anytime soon.

They make some fine liquor there and have some pretty good tours. You’ll be missing out...

[count2infinity]

Don't forget about the fried chicken...

[grunthy]

If I don't get the day off, it's not a real holiday. F*ck Columbus and Indigenous people (although, Columbus already handled that part for me...)

This is my first time in 7 years I didn’t get mass genocide day off.

[Gaucho]

Well, I'm not visiting Kentucky anytime soon.

They make some fine liquor there and have some pretty good tours. You’ll be missing out...

Probably. So many places to go, so little time...

[Freddy Rumsen]

[CBear3]

Seriously, I don't understand how any news group doesn't employ half a dozen people who's sole job it is to keep the newscast from effing up things like this. I understand print's struggles and being understaffed, but major TV News? Get outta here.

[tifosi77]

What I don't understand is the how aspect. Not how did they run the footage, how did they get the footage that was presented as being from the battlefield. Did some intern just scroll YouTube? What's the origin story of how ABC 'obtained' that footage?

[CBear3]

What I don't understand is the how aspect. Not how did they run the footage, how did they get the footage that was presented as being from the battlefield. Did some intern just scroll YouTube? What's the origin story of how ABC 'obtained' that footage?

Correct, what numbnuts passed that off as real

[MR25]

Watch it be Russians

[Shyster]

Well, I'm not visiting Kentucky anytime soon.

Aw, come on, the annual Knob Creek machine-gun shoot is freaking awesome. When the minigun kicks in at 1:05 it's like watching a bullet firehose:

In the course of this 13-minute video you gotta figure somewhere over a million dollars of ammo went downrange. That's pretty neat.

[tjand72]

Pretty interesting/informative read on Columbus. I was not aware as to how Columbus Day came about, and I also wasn't aware that Indigneous Peoples already get both their own day and month. The author makes a pretty good case against all of the virulent nonsensical hatred against Columbus specifically. @slappybrown

The second reason is that on March 14, 1891, Italian Americans hit a low point in the long, arduous hazing period that every immigrant group seems condemned to suffer before emerging into the status of respectable American-hood. That year, an angry New Orleans mob lynched 11 Italian immigrants after they were cleared of murder charges. Perhaps the largest lynching in US history, it was condoned by the New York Times and a future president, Teddy Roosevelt.

Italian Americans desperately needed a hero to stand for them, someone to symbolize their contributions to their adopted land. The following year, Italian Americans in New York City erected a statue to Columbus at what became ­Columbus Circle and inscribed it, “To the world, he gave a world.”

https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/stop-scap ... -columbus/

You're right. There is a lot of interesting information in that article and the ones that it links to. Let's check it out.

Note:all of the following quotes are from the articles. I don't want anyone to think I'm quoting Shaf from here on.

Vilifying him won’t change the unfairness of history, but it will delegitimize the outright and undeniable contributions of Western civilization. Tearing down statues to him won’t undo the damage from two worlds colliding, but it will mask the progress and achievements that emerged from two worlds converging.

Contributions? What did Western civilization "contribute" to the natives? What benefits did it ultimately confer to them? Continuation of of Western civilization, I can agree with. Also, what progress was gained by the "converging" of the two worlds? I can admit that there was a democratic influence from the natives that affected the eventual colonists, but let's not pretend that this was a cooperative/coordinated effort between two willing parties.

Columbus Day exists for two reasons. The first: Columbus was the explorer who completed four recorded voyages across the Atlantic, showing great courage, determination and skill. His audacity and vision revolutionized worldwide human migration. Hundreds of millions of immigrants have followed his brave example over the course of more than five centuries. Today, his legacy endures in every immigrant who seeks opportunity and a better life.

His influence definitely revolutionized human migration. The Columbian Exchange is, hands down, the most important series of events in human history. It's named after him, I get it, but he's not someone to be emulated.

Despite what many people think, modern immigrants don't go to new lands for the express purpose of opening a trade route for the ultimate enrichment of themselves and their patron countries. I also have a hard time believing that people coming to the United States today do so with the intent of subjugating US citizens.

Columbus was not an "immigrant". He was an entrepreneur and businessman looking for investors in his brand. He just happened to go to other countries to do it.

So, when the attack on Columbus is as virulent as it is, the Italian American community is understandably distressed. He is the icon who represents our presence here, and symbolizes our enduring love for and commitment to this haven for immigrants.

There's some misplaced pride there. First, was Columbus even "Italian"? He was Genoese, which was part of the Italian region. There was no unified "Italy" at that time. That might be nit-picking. Even then, Genoa and other people of "Italy" wanted no part of Columbus' plan. He had to sail for, represent, and give the proceeds to a foreign nation. They're celebrating a mercenary.

Critics assign him the most mal­evolent personal motives. Yet cultural anthropologist Carol Delaney notes that Columbus himself never owned a slave and adopted an ­indigenous child as his son.

Well, I'm convinced that he's a good guy with good motives.

Why must he shoulder the guilt for the entire 15th century? Slavery was already here in the New World. So were cannibalism and human sacrifice, neither tolerated in the Old World.

But the forces that shaped the New World were out of the hands of any single man: The Doctrine of Discovery, human greed, free enterprise, international competition spurred by Old World mercantilism, abuse of power — all unleashed on a playing field without rules.

All of that is true. He's a product of his time, and did nothing new in terms of slavery in the New or Old World. There were many bad humans. Does that mean that a bad human needs to be celebrated for being no worse a human than the other bad humans?

These are dangerous days for our republic. We are being pitted against one another as never before, weakening the pillars of our rational but still imperfect democracy. The attacks on Columbus feed into that conflict.

We shouldn't discuss it, then. Let's overlook things because it's easier and because it's tradition.

"Is this an attempt to obliterate the history and contributions of Western civilization?” said one angry man at a recent meeting of Italian Americans. Another said, “It’s an attack on Catholicism”; still another, “It’s an insult to all Italian Americans.”

No. No. No. 0 for 3.

Indigenous Peoples Day should be a holiday … and it is: Aug. 9. And November is Indigenous Peoples Month.

Indigenous Peoples Day is a UN holiday, which, let's be honest, means nothing. November is Indigenous Peoples Month in the US. That is correct. November is also National Family Caregivers Month and COPD Awareness Month. While I'm sure that Native Americans appreciate the token month that was bestowed upon them in 1990, it kind of loses its luster when it shares a month with a disease.

At bottom, we are all immigrants. Whether we walked across an iced-over Bering Strait with our Native American siblings or we came in chains or desperation or hope from Africa, Europe or Asia, we are all immigrants here.

And we are all Americans.

Nah. The original inhabitants of North and South American weren't immigrants. They were just people that walked/sailed to a new, uninhabited land. By default, it became theirs. How much of it was "theirs" can be up for debate, but don't pretend that 500-ish years of focused and intensive invasion, colonization, and exploitation is the same as people following their next meal.

Here's one of the linked articles: https://nypost.com/2019/10/12/columbus- ... e-holiday/

There’s no doubt Columbus — and the conquistadors who followed — enslaved and slaughtered on a mass scale. But Columbus didn’t bring cruelty to peaceful, benign peoples. The indigenous people were also cruel to one another.

No comment needed.

After listing some of the atrocities committed by the native cultures (and they were certainly atrocities, don't get me wrong), the author says,

Hey, but we’re only thinking of the good things done by indigenous peoples, right? That’s exactly the point of Columbus Day, to celebrate the good stuff.

You know what, this guy's right. I guess I can overlook the fact that Columbus and the men directly under his control tested the sharpness of their knives on the natives, fed them to their dogs, raped 9 and 10 year-old girls, cut off the hands of those that did not meet a quota for gold production, and smashed babies' heads against rocks. I mean, that's all water under the bridge. It's just temporal and cultural relativism, after all.

While the clash of civilizations was bloody, celebrating Columbus Day is not a salute to conquest. Columbus is simply a handy symbol for all of the energy Italians and other Europeans brought to the Americas.

WWII kicked off a hell of a lot of innovation and progress. We should make a holiday that celebrates the people that initiated it.

Sure, celebrate indigenous cultures if you like, but it’s preposterous to argue there is nothing worth celebrating about what Columbus represents.

I don't see people in America clamoring for an Alighieri, Gutenberg, Polo, Prince Henry, Medici, or da Vinci Day. There is plenty to celebrate about some of the ideas that Columbus represented, but that doesn't mean that others aren't worthy or that it's appropriate to ignore the multitude of moral failures that he was a part of.



For God's sake, he died still thinking that he made it to the Indies/China. Not a good look.

[AuthorTony]

I think the fact that others beat him to North American by hundreds of years takes away any need for him to have a "day" let alone his own personal issues.

[blackjack68]

If you guys mess up my day off...

[Willie Kool]

Also, what progress was gained by the "converging" of the two worlds?

The invention of pizza...

I also have a hard time believing that people coming to the United States today do so with the intent of subjugating US citizens.

But Shaf tells us that the Muslims want to impose Sharia...

[dodint]

I'd be down for a Gutenberg day.

[AuthorTony]

I vote for Bjarni Herjólfsson Day.

[Gaucho]

I, for one, very much enjoyed tjand's post.