Politics And Current Events

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:24 am

Out of curiosity... why does everything have to be crammed into one bill? It's making it more and more difficult for sane GOP congressmen to vote for it.
The elimination of deductions is the premise of their simplification plan (slash rates by eliminating deductions). But they aren't slashing rates for anyone really just corporations, for infdividuals, there are some slight changes and a boost to the standard deduction.

So if you were just taking the standard deduction you are likely to get a reasonable tax cut, but if you were itemizing before, you're likely to see a tax increase. Unless you are rich where the small cuts to the top rates give you a windfall.

The repeal of the mandate serves two roles, helps their math by giving them another $300B and appeases the libertarian wing that they have to woo because they want Kansas level tax cuts.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:26 am

This is why income tax is stupid. Consumption tax would be better.
I recently heard a very compelling argument for the VAT. But at this point I would favor most anything over income tax.
If you can come up with a formula that exempts spending on things like food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, etc - in other words, discretionary spending - I don't really think there's an argument that can be made in favor of continuing the income tax. It just seems so silly on its face to fund the government by reducing the amount of money people have available to take care of themselves. It's just weird.
Only grocery store food items, non-designer clothes, houses and apartments under a certain dollar threshold, bachelors and under, medically necessary, and etc. are exempt.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:29 am

Cuttting taxes did wonders for Kansas and Oklahoma.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... crats.html

The new head of the Democratic party was on Rachel Maddow the other night. With regards to the wave, she was saying something about how some Oklahoma schools are so underfunded that they had to go to 4 day weeks. Shits ****.

That has nothing to do with tax cuts. Oklahoma doesn’t give a **** about education.
Did you read the article? I’ll say no.
That poll also found 74 percent of Oklahomans saying that increasing teacher pay should be a major priority for their government

Ummm... the Oklahoma government doesn’t give a **** about education.

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:30 am

Cuttting taxes did wonders for Kansas and Oklahoma.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... crats.html

The new head of the Democratic party was on Rachel Maddow the other night. With regards to the wave, she was saying something about how some Oklahoma schools are so underfunded that they had to go to 4 day weeks. Shits ****.

That has nothing to do with tax cuts. Oklahoma doesn’t give a **** about education.
Did you read the article? I’ll say no.
That poll also found 74 percent of Oklahomans saying that increasing teacher pay should be a major priority for their government

Ummm... the Oklahoma government doesn’t give a **** about education.
That's the point -- cutting taxes was more important than funding education. What point do you believe you're making here?

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:33 am



http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... crats.html

The new head of the Democratic party was on Rachel Maddow the other night. With regards to the wave, she was saying something about how some Oklahoma schools are so underfunded that they had to go to 4 day weeks. Shits ****.

That has nothing to do with tax cuts. Oklahoma doesn’t give a **** about education.
Did you read the article? I’ll say no.
That poll also found 74 percent of Oklahomans saying that increasing teacher pay should be a major priority for their government

Ummm... the Oklahoma government doesn’t give a **** about education.
That's the point -- cutting taxes was more important than funding education. What point do you believe you're making here?

I live in Oklahoma, my wife is from Oklahoma and employed by a school system in Oklahoma and Oklahoma has never funded education properly. Your outside point of view is meaningless.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:37 am


I live in Oklahoma, my wife is from Oklahoma and employed by a school system in Oklahoma and Oklahoma has never funded education properly. Your outside point of view is meaningless.
What public services are ever "funded properly"? Obviously aside from rich affluent suburbs that keep their residents rich and affluent by funding their schools.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:39 am

I thought we had hit top Grunt levels....
Image

dodint
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Postby dodint » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:48 am

This is why income tax is stupid. Consumption tax would be better.
I recently heard a very compelling argument for the VAT. But at this point I would favor most anything over income tax.
If you can come up with a formula that exempts spending on things like food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, etc - in other words, discretionary spending - I don't really think there's an argument that can be made in favor of continuing the income tax. It just seems so silly on its face to fund the government by reducing the amount of money people have available to take care of themselves. It's just weird.
The only 'fair tax' is a tax on accumulated wealth...
"Paying for stuff you already own, what a sham." - Sweet Dee

slappybrown
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Postby slappybrown » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:48 am


I live in Oklahoma, my wife is from Oklahoma and employed by a school system in Oklahoma and Oklahoma has never funded education properly. Your outside point of view is meaningless.
Good to know that moving forward, you are limited to opining only on things that you have first hand knowledge of. That should severely limit your ability to derail nearly every conversation. We can keep it cabined to Oklahoma and audit.

Back to the point:
But Republicans felt there was still more fat to cut: While rich Sooners collected their tax breaks, Oklahoma schools suffered a 16.5 percent funding cut in the latter half of 2016. Many of the state’s school districts now make due with four-day weeks.
That's from the article Troy posted. Were Okalahoma school districts running four day school weeks before the post 2010 GOP tax slashes in the same way they are now? Spoiler: no they were not:
School districts staring down deep budget holes have turned to shorter weeks in desperation as a way to save a little bit of money and persuade increasingly hard-to-find teachers to take some of the nation’s lowest-paying jobs.

Of 513 school districts in Oklahoma, 96 have lopped Fridays or Mondays off their schedules — nearly triple the number in 2015 and four times as many as in 2013. An additional 44 are considering cutting instructional days by moving to a four-day week in the fall or by shortening the school year, the Oklahoma State School Boards Association found in a survey last month.
We can argue about funding levels -- e.g., does Oklahoma have the latest tech in their classrooms, or are the building state of the art, or are music and art classes available, etc. -- but we're talking about an entire day of classes being lopped off because the state GOP made a decision that tax cuts were more important than school funding. Losing an entire day of school very much is a consequence of the tax plan implemented by the OK GOP, contrary to your assertion that they have "nothing" to do with one another. Either that, or you have to believe that these are all just coincidences, an unexpected alignment of the stars.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:52 am


I live in Oklahoma, my wife is from Oklahoma and employed by a school system in Oklahoma and Oklahoma has never funded education properly. Your outside point of view is meaningless.
Good to know that moving forward, you are limited to opining only on things that you have first hand knowledge of. That should severely limit your ability to derail nearly every conversation. We can keep it cabined to Oklahoma and audit.

Back to the point:
But Republicans felt there was still more fat to cut: While rich Sooners collected their tax breaks, Oklahoma schools suffered a 16.5 percent funding cut in the latter half of 2016. Many of the state’s school districts now make due with four-day weeks.
That's from the article Troy posted. Were Okalahoma school districts running four day school weeks before the post 2010 GOP tax slashes in the same way they are now? Spoiler: no they were not:
School districts staring down deep budget holes have turned to shorter weeks in desperation as a way to save a little bit of money and persuade increasingly hard-to-find teachers to take some of the nation’s lowest-paying jobs.

Of 513 school districts in Oklahoma, 96 have lopped Fridays or Mondays off their schedules — nearly triple the number in 2015 and four times as many as in 2013. An additional 44 are considering cutting instructional days by moving to a four-day week in the fall or by shortening the school year, the Oklahoma State School Boards Association found in a survey last month.
We can argue about funding levels -- e.g., does Oklahoma have the latest tech in their classrooms, or are the building state of the art, or are music and art classes available, etc. -- but we're talking about an entire day of classes being lopped off because the state GOP made a decision that tax cuts were more important than school funding. Losing an entire day of school very much is a consequence of the tax plan implemented by the OK GOP, contrary to your assertion that they have "nothing" to do with one another. Either that, or you have to believe that these are all just coincidences, an unexpected alignment of the stars.

It’s a continuation of the Oklahoma government not caring about education. That has been the underlying problem for a long time in Oklahoma and a majority of Republican states. They cut funding whether taxes are cut or not.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:55 am

Christie cut 100% of state funding for my school district right after he was elected. the community acted like grown ups and accepted that to maintain the level of education they were used to, they needed to vote yes on a tax hike to make up for the budget cut (well done Christie - ha!). it seemed like fairly simple calculus, as it was something like a hundred bucks a year per household in an affluent community to keep all the things that made them want to move into this community, but boy howdy were there still some conservatives with unlimited wealth standing up at the town hall, demanding that they don't raise taxes. it was incredible to see people wanting to compromise their children simply out of principle.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:59 am


It’s a continuation of the Oklahoma government not caring about education. That has been the underlying problem for a long time in Oklahoma and a majority of Republican states. They cut funding whether taxes are cut or not.
Yeah, and the point is that there was a district that went for Trump in 2016 by a 40 point margin electing a democrat to some state government position. Ultimately people realize that governments do things and respond when the small c's **** things up.
Last edited by Troy Loney on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 pm

Republicans use any excuse they can to cut education funding. Bad economy, cut education. Good economy, cut education. Poor performance, cut education. Cut taxes, cut education. The issue is they hate public education.

Troy Loney
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Postby Troy Loney » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:02 pm

Republicans use any excuse they can to cut education funding. Bad economy, cut education. Good economy, cut education. Poor performance, cut education. Cut taxes, cut education. The issue is they hate public education.
It's sort of the libertarian conundrum. Lots of the people that like to fashion their views on libertarian premises lack the deductive reasoning to comprehend the rational conclusion of their views.

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Postby shmenguin » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:05 pm

'round these parts, public schools are objectively superior to private schools. better facilities, better special education (of course), better curriculum, and waaaaaaaay better teachers. the last bit is mainly because of pay + benefits. you generally only teach private school if you can't get a public school gig, or if you are seeking an environment with lower expectations.

Nuge
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Postby Nuge » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:17 pm

Christie cut 100% of state funding for my school district right after he was elected. the community acted like grown ups and accepted that to maintain the level of education they were used to, they needed to vote yes on a tax hike to make up for the budget cut (well done Christie - ha!). it seemed like fairly simple calculus, as it was something like a hundred bucks a year per household in an affluent community to keep all the things that made them want to move into this community, but boy howdy were there still some conservatives with unlimited wealth standing up at the town hall, demanding that they don't raise taxes. it was incredible to see people wanting to compromise their children simply out of principle.
I must be missing something here. There's no way that a state can cut all funding to a specific public school district.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Christie cut 100% of state funding for my school district right after he was elected. the community acted like grown ups and accepted that to maintain the level of education they were used to, they needed to vote yes on a tax hike to make up for the budget cut (well done Christie - ha!). it seemed like fairly simple calculus, as it was something like a hundred bucks a year per household in an affluent community to keep all the things that made them want to move into this community, but boy howdy were there still some conservatives with unlimited wealth standing up at the town hall, demanding that they don't raise taxes. it was incredible to see people wanting to compromise their children simply out of principle.
I must be missing something here. There's no way that a state can cut all funding to a specific public school district.
They can. And they did.

It was all based on income. Poor communities got off the hook. Affluent communities got screwed. It's changed a little since then, as we get X amount of dollars per low income child, but other than that, we're effectively self funded.

Nuge
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Postby Nuge » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:30 pm

Wow. That's nuts. I can't imagine any district sustainability after cuts that big.

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:38 pm

I've been in meetings all morning...I'm honored that I was the topic du jour for a good portion of the AM :lol:

CBear...I would never recommend sifting through my old posts...I'm sorry you had to do that.

For the rest of you, I love all of you even if I don't disagree with you.

I voted for Trump because I hate Clinton. And to watch the Left collectively lose their minds. In other words, for entertainment value. Any action he took on immigration or anything else would be a bonus (of course, not in the hamfisted way he did the week he took office). I acknowledge this makes me a hateworthy person.

Finally, it's high time that marijuana is fully legalized. Stop sending parents to prison over a plant.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Only grocery store food items, non-designer clothes, houses and apartments under a certain dollar threshold, bachelors and under, medically necessary, and etc. are exempt.
The devil is in the details here, and I recognize that. What constitutes 'non-designer clothes'? I can buy Chicken In A Biskit at grocery stores, is that exempt?

It's tricky, but I think the endgame is undoubtedly preferable.

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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:05 pm

Probably should go in military aviation thread.

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/9 ... 6317847559

shafnutz05
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Postby shafnutz05 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:08 pm

Well...this is interesting.

:lol:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/fo ... li=BBmkt5R
Fox finally had enough of Simmons after he crudely insulted female Fox staffers, taunted them and exposed his chest, and otherwise behaved like the “demon” character he plays onstage. Management was not amused, and Simmons’s photograph was promptly posted Wednesday at the security entrance of the company’s Manhattan headquarters along with a “do-not-admit” advisory.

Simmons’s publicist didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
“Hey chicks, sue me!” he shouted, and then pulled open his red velvet shirt to reveal his chest and belly, according to the source. Then he starting telling Michael Jackson pedophilia jokes, and then bopped two employees on the head with his book, making derisive comments about their comparative intelligence according to the sound their heads made when struck.

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Postby columbia » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:09 pm

:thumb:

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Only grocery store food items, non-designer clothes, houses and apartments under a certain dollar threshold, bachelors and under, medically necessary, and etc. are exempt.
The devil is in the details here, and I recognize that. What constitutes 'non-designer clothes'? I can buy Chicken In A Biskit at grocery stores, is that exempt?

It's tricky, but I think the endgame is undoubtedly preferable.

Only exempt food items that are unprepared. So uncooked meat/poultry, milk/juices, uncooked vegetables, fruits, and etc. I don’t think it would be that hard to make it fair. Set a dollar threshold for cost of clothes, if it costs more than x dollars it is taxed.
Last edited by grunthy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tifosi77
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Postby tifosi77 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:18 pm

Probably should go in military aviation thread.

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/9 ... 6317847559
I have a friend that lives on the other end of Whidbey who posted a picture of it. I'm not quite sure how they did this. Contrails don't really just turn on and off. I mean, maybe if they approached the area in afterburner? I can't figure out the mechanics.

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